WAR (Warhammer Online)

A joke as in WoW, just a temporary loss of stats, something that most people don't fear and therefore don't care if they die and play the game like a zergfest because of that or a significant death penalty you want to avoid that keeps the excitement and intensity level high, makes you plan and use careful consideration when exploring and hunting?

Asheron's Call still has the best Death Penalty of all MMO's I've played.  You get permenat vitae (lose of stats) until you earned enough exp to burn it off.

This has been discussed in previous threads. The biggest penalty in this game is time.  You die you lose time getting back to your objective/agenda. Given the high PvP content this game is supposed to have, it is reasonable. You will die a lot. Stat loss or experience debt may be part of the penalty, but time should be the real painful experience you want to avoid by playing your character well.

Hopefully Mythic has this penalty calculated well enough so that zerging is a terrible strategy.  To me, that means respawn points are far from hot spots or dungeon areas so that groups have to work well together to keep themselves from falling apart when a comrade falls until he/she comes back.

Most likely it will be just like dark age of camelot a lose of stats for a set time but in dark age you have a condition stat after death that must be restored at a healer which are in towns the lower the stat the weaker you get your items also have the same thing but are restored at blacksmith but in pvp only  stat lose with timer applies, but if you looking for perma death or lose of exp till you actually lvl down aka final fantasy or items. I don't think many mmos will ever do this again these are very harsh and most people don't like the fact of losing something they worked so hard to get and mmos are trying to get bigger player bases the hardcore rules are fun they just don't work for the newbies

Time is the biggest penalty they've mentioned other than th efact if you die during RvR activities you give the other realm points.    The more points they have the closer to your capitol they get.   And yes having your capitol taken is a HUGE bad thing......the cities are 'semi' dynamic meaning the longer you keep them from being invaded the more valuable to you and to the enemy they become.  

NPC's carry better items, dungeons & in city events become better (which when the enemy takes you they get the loot, they get the dungeons, and they get to effectively make life hell), hopefully the next grab bag covers more specifics besides the juicy tidbits they've been hinting at for months.

Think of it as in real time you have a big power ful country thats getting richer by the day...war breaks out...powerful country is in shambles for X amount of time trying to recover losses. 

RvR (group based) & PvP (1vs1 based)  penalities are pretty different if you make the players afraid to participate in RvR due to super harsh penalities which make sense in a PvP game the entire center purpose of the game for WAR atleast is effecitively destroyed.   Your not supposed to be afraid to die your supposed to hate it sure but you want to feel the urge to get back in and continue the never ending struggle that is Warhammer.  

Harsh dealth penalities would slow this down alot which is what they don't want, I think whatever death penalitise they have will stick very close to what they used in DAoC.

Devs said death penalty will be very light.

People at only-war forums voted 70% supporting "no penalty" at all.

Go figure.

Death Penalties in MMO's is an important issue.  It is not surprising to me that the poll showed 70% of those people not wanting any.   The game targets the same exact target audience as World of Warcraft.  The people who play that game are used to shrugging off death.   Giving your opponent points is a laughable justification to discourage people from throwing themselves into the meat grinder, it simply won't work unless there is some sort of personal loss.

If you look at the WoW PvP system or even the DAOC one, there is never a loss of realm points for being defeated, there is only a gain for winning.  That's why the people who have the most points are not necessarily the best PvP'ers, they are simply the ones who have the most time clocked in.

RvR in WAR is built and designed exactly like RvR in DAoC.

You cannot prevent the zerg, because the zerg is what the game is built for.

Realm Vs Realm by it's very nature is a zerg. This isn't WoW alliance vs horde, this isn't group vs group this isn't even RYL single vs single. It isn't an arena.

WAR is hundreds vs hundreds, this is your entire race vs another race. The battles will be huge, the battles will be intense, and they will wage on for extreme periods of time, Just like in the hayday of DAoC.

People really need to quit comparing WAR to WOW. These 2 games are about as different as the sun and the moon. You will never exp the kinda PvP in WoW that WAR is going to offer.

The penalty I am sure for death will be just like DAoC as well, you will get res sickness (loss of stats for 5 minutes) and be teleported away from the battle, usually a good distance away and have to make your way ALLLLLL the way back to the battle to begin fighting again. If the battle is large enough and your side is dieing ALOT, this penalty is severe enough, less faction members you have on the battlefield at that point in time determines if you win or not. The more people that die and get teleported away, your odds of winning that fight start dropping like a meteorite from space. You DO NOT want to die in WAR, not for the fact that you as an individual have to now run back to the battlefield, but because you not being there helping is causing your side to lose the battle.

It is pretty simple.

What it boils down like said by neonaka ... and this is for the people who seem to fail to grasp what WAR is about....this is a game about a war.  You need armies to go to war.  Your armies can not be afraid to die.  Your armies must be willing to zerg in and conquer or be destroyed. 

Harsh death penalties always equals less people willing to fight.   The less you have to fight the less chances you have to win.  Look at EvE most people sit in the higher sec zones unless they absolutely need to go to lower sec or they're going to help someone or fight off pirates.

If this game was made to be an open world kind of game like the original UO or even EvE  I would understand harsh death penalties (you have to have some way of discouraging constant fighting & griefing).  

EvE while it is a PvP game is not about an intergalatic war.  Its basically a space world sim with people duking it out for control through yes sometimes warfare but alot of politics & most definitly economics.

WAR is about a war going on...there's no time to wait 5 days to recoop your losses.  You need your soldiers back.  Granted its not a fast return but the larger numbers of missing people due to bad tactics the more your Realm loses the war which is  very bad and has very real Tangilble effects on the ENTIRE realm not just yourself.   

Im all for death penalities when they're needed but extreme ones in this case would be highly discouraging to the most important aspects of the game.  The RvR ... how can you have constant massive battles if everyone is scared or trying to recoop?  

In EQ2 I hated the death penalties but in a way they were needed, they most definitly helped with getting groups to learn to work together because if you didn't EVERYONE was punished for your death.....the game is more soloable now so those penalities are gone.  

In WoW its a PvE casual mostly solo till endgame type of game...it has some tacted on gear grind pvp ... there's no real need to punish people at that point.   Though there probably should of been some sort of penality more than res sickness & faction hits for the PvP servers.

In UO .. without death penalities only the strongest nastiest most powerful long time subscriber would be able to venture outside the safety areas.   Of course ... their penalties weren't enough...and then they trammelized it and made it worse.

see a pattern? Different needs for different types of games.  It doesn't make them carebear or not carebear it just makes them suited for what the game's most basic core is.  For WAR its RvR...large constant warfare to take over or protect your home country.   You need armies..you can't have armies if people are afraid to lose all their stuff.