General Discussion

News Manager Keith Cross had a recent discussion with CCP's resident economist, Dr. Eyjólfur Guðmundsson about the recent Quarterly Economic Report and what it means to players.

This year’s GDC coincided with the release of the EVE Online’s Second Quarterly Economic Newsletter (QEN) and EVE’s own resident economist Dr. Eyjólfur Guðmundsson was on hand at the show to help guide me through it. The current newsletter takes a more in-depth look at EVE’s population, examines various price indices, looks at inflation/deflation, shows some of the more interesting market snapshots, and defines the GUP, the virtual equivalent of real world GDPs.

One of the goals in Dr. Eyjó’s research is to determine the population distribution across the EVE universe. The first QEN took a snapshot of the locations of every character in EVE. The snapshot showed that, at the time, 78% of characters were in high security space, 13% were in low security space, and 9% were in 0.0 space. But a snapshot is just a snapshot, and only tells what is going on in that exact instant. The second QEN takes a deeper look at EVE’s demographics, this time monitoring movement between systems. The results showed that out of 460,000 characters, 250,000 or roughly half of those characters made at least one jump to another system. Of those 250,000 jumpers, 50% never left high sec space, thus conclusively proving that 50% of EVE players are wussies.

Read the whole thing here.

He's right to speculate that the increasing consumption of virtual goods might lead to a decrease of consumption of real world goods. For me personally, I really don't care about "making it big time" in the real world because all that means is I end up being a parasite on society consuming more resources than I have a right to. I'd rather a more simple life: a good computer, broadband Internet and incredible games like Eve.

Anyway, if there is a desire to see more players in low-sec or 0.0 space, give us the opportunity to actually fly into them and more of us will show up. Every time I have tried to visit 0.0 space, I am killed instantaneously by gate campers. In low-sec space, there's like a 40% chance the same thing will occur. If anything, you pirates need to lull us in with a false sense of security i.e. let us in to 0.0 for maybe five minutes and just as we start thinking everything is ok, then blast us to oblivion. Wouldn't that be more fun?

And remember, don't call high-sec dwellers carebear. Without the miners and industrialists, you PvPers and pirates would not have all those ships and equipment to pew pew in.

 With the amount of time and effort it takes to keep and maintain a high level carector and ships it doesnt suprize me at all that 81 % cover there ass at all cost. I've spent weeks building and suppling a ship to only loose it in less than a few minutes just making a few jumps to group up with old friends and we have been playing for years.So if I explore new 0.0 teritory its always with a new toon and a cheap ship,or with a group you know real well.because you are gonna die and loose it all.And its a good chance that any  new friends you found will be the folks putting you in a cold state of being.

With that bitch out of the way ,Yes I still play and will continue to do so.Theres probably a word for such masacism but it escapes me at the moment.

Originally posted by Grifin

 With the amount of time and effort it takes to keep and maintain a high level carector and ships it doesnt suprize me at all that 81 % cover there ass at all cost. I've spent weeks building and suppling a ship to only loose it in less than a few minutes just making a few jumps to group up with old friends and we have been playing for years.So if I explore new 0.0 teritory its always with a new toon and a cheap ship,or with a group you know real well.because you are gonna die and loose it all.And its a good chance that any  new friends you found will be the folks putting you in a cold state of being.

With that bitch out of the way ,Yes I still play and will continue to do so.Theres probably a word for such masacism but it escapes me at the moment.

Proves beyond a doubt, Eve is a PvE game with some PvP in it :).

My toons almost never leave high sec. Risk is definitely not worth the reward going through the low sec choke points. Being gate camped isn't fun, nor do I want to take the several hours of gathering a group of people to go break that camp (as they'd just run away and do it again tomorrow).

Wish I had the time to be in a big corp in deep 0.0 space fighting it out versus other corps... but those fights tend to be the same way. The "Blob" attack style. Its all about removing risk for yourself while increasing the reward. Funny, that.

For another perspective, I live full time in deep 0.0 and thrive quite well.  I started playing about 18 months ago and built my character from scratch, so no unfair skill advantages either.

A higher level of awareness and cooperation is certainly necessary to do well in 0.0 space, but it's also possible to make a lot more ISK out there.  We have occasional raiders, but I haven't lost a ship in quite a while.  PVP is necessary to defend your space from invaders, but to me that's the best part of the game.

Personally, I think low sec (.4-.1) space is more dangerous than 0.0.  In 0.0 you have Intel channels where residents share information on hostiles and collaborate for defense.  Raiders typically need a fleet of 5-10 to be effective, but it's been many months since I saw (or was in) a 100+ ship fleet.  Pirates can thrive in low sec, whereas a single pirate (or small group) would be dealt with quickly and harshly in deep 0.0.

The reason you only last one or two jumps into 0.0 is that most areas are NBSI (Not Blue Shoot It), meaning if you aren't pre-identified as a friendly you are considered hostile.  I love my 0.0 though!

Eric said it right, Risk vs. Reward. Eve will lose more players that get their first ship upgrade and the subsequently lose it and can't afford to replace it because of that very problem. The risk is great and the reward is minimal.

So they've balanced out a decent economy, but really that's about it. One thing I can say about Eve, is there's no instant gratification, you really have to earn it. So call PvE players wussies, but at the same time make sure that CCP understands that PvE equals profit, otherwise... what was the number... 49%... Might leave the game for good. If I got a mission that led to PvP, I'd drop it. Risk my ship or my implants or both, for a payout of 500k Isk, screw that.

Eve doesn't even have a decent number of different types of PvE missions at that. Go there, kill that. That's what an agent mission looks like. Where's the defensive missions, where's the escort missions. For gods sake, where are the basic patrol missions? No, the agents always have some NPC pirate to kill, every single time. So instead of grinding levels in Eve, you have to grind missions so you can afford to keep flying. It's always something.

Here's what I don't get about the replies in this thread: they talk about risk-vs.-reward like the entire goal of EVE is to be wealthy.  This puzzles me greatly - what benefit do you get from being stupidly rich in a virtual game?  Your uber-wealth in EVE means exactly nothing in real-world terms.

In contrast, EVE's PvP gives you the adrenaline rush of combat, the thrill of competition, and the mental excercises of tactics, strategies, and ship fitting, all items that have personal value in real life (read: fun).  For me, wealth in EVE is a means to this end (I have about 15-20 billion in assets in-game, btw, most of which I've flown in PvP).

In short, people who approach EVE from a competitive standpoint are the ones who truly "get" the game, whereas those who simply grind for ISK day after day get nothing out of it as far as I can see.

Anyone care to enlighten me as to what I'm missing about the avoid-risk-at-all-costs mindset?

Well, it is kinda funny watching people try to bribe CCP into making EVE a mindless isk grind...

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Originally posted by Wrayeth
Here's what I don't get about the replies in this thread: they talk about risk-vs.-reward like the entire goal of EVE is to be wealthy.  This puzzles me greatly - what benefit do you get from being stupidly rich in a virtual game?  Your uber-wealth in EVE means exactly nothing in real-world terms.
In contrast, EVE's PvP gives you the adrenaline rush of combat, the thrill of competition, and the mental excercises of tactics, strategies, and ship fitting, all items that have personal value in real life (read: fun).  For me, wealth in EVE is a means to this end (I have about 15-20 billion in assets in-game, btw, most of which I've flown in PvP).
In short, people who approach EVE from a competitive standpoint are the ones who truly "get" the game, whereas those who simply grind for ISK day after day get nothing out of it as far as I can see.
Anyone care to enlighten me as to what I'm missing about the avoid-risk-at-all-costs mindset?

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Even though the majority of MMORPGs revolve around combat gameplay mechanics people don't play MMORPGs just to fight.

Some people play just to be richest player imaginable. You can't get the appeal of that?

Some people play the game to acquire monopolies and trusts. With these players can literally screw other players around to become even richer than possible under a free market or to simply make other players poorer. Players of this type like to pvp through the economy.

Some people like to immerse themselves in science fiction world. Is there an MMORPG better than Eve Online? Hell no.

Some people play mmorpgs just for the social enviornment. This is the same reason people constantly flock to the latest clubs, resturaunts, etc. People like being where there are more people to socialize with. Eve is one of the few MMOs to consistently grow even after five years. Eve is one of the hippest games to hang out in.

In my opinion:

Whats the point in constantly staying in high sec space? yea your safer, but it does take longer to gain ISK or in my opinion it does; I have moved from Meno to Omist an to other 0.0 sectors; PvPed, podded people, an podded myself thats the fun in EVE, all I think is "So what ill loose this ship? ill just get another one" thus now I have well billions an I spend it like its my last day alive for christ sake, I have 2 chimera carriers, 1 Pheonix, an I can offored to build or buy a few leviathens (Caldari capital ships) I have all my skills near enough to lv 5 now well all my ship command an learning ect ect; the only reason WHY I have gotten this far is due to how I think of this game, I dont think of it as "Oh shyts ima die run away, I dun wanna lo0z this"

If I loose a ship, so what its a game, your supposed to have fun; not worry about lossing ISK or crap.

Since this game is time based, all you need to do is spend a few hours ganking freighters in high sec or low sec.

Shinra  (A corp, im not in it) made around 7billion from just popping a charon freighter in high sec.

This also proves; your not completely SAFE everywhere people; so stop complaining, if you turn Eve into an ISK grind fest, well EVE will die! the majority of players on this game are Alts either of PVP players an PVE players.

Dont hate the players!

Well I dunno if my spelling was good or not but eh deal with it.