General Discussion

Greetings. First time poster, long time lurker.

I came up with what I think is a really interesting idea I wanted to run by as large of an MMO audience as I could. This seemed like the right place. The idea is inspired from my understanding and experience of several game economies, most notably, Ultima Online and World of Warcraft. By all means, if you have no interest in this, or you think the economies of such games are fine, feel free to skip by. I'm just throwing out ideas here.

May of us agree that RMT and gold farmers are bad for most MMO's - Specifically, games where RMT was not part of the design, and where  a black market for gold farmers can spring up almost out of necessity. I think this idea addresses a way to combat both, and revolutionizes how economic units are handled both in code, and in practice.

I think, generally speaking, money is *too* free in online games. It's produced out of fiat, with limited methods to control how it's transfered, and how it is removed from the economy to combat inflation. My ideas constrict how it can be transfered, and are far more effective at removing it  from the economy at a rate approaching that at which it enters.

1) Monetary Units are Account Bound/Linked.

I think it's advisable that gold or money made in a game world should be bound to an account. This allows the transfer of money to other characters the player owns and restricts it's movement. Perhaps even find a way to link accounts so that the person who owns multiple accounts, or for example, has a spouse or relation that plays as well, can still transfer money between one another.

This may sound odd at first, but consider what this means. This can potentially shut out RMT's completely if it has to be done with  knowledge of details about another's account.

But what about Items?

Now, the loophole is that you can still transfer SOME items freely. Indeed, it may allow some items to serve as currency since it can be freely traded. We need to limit this, but we also need to do so in such a way that it doesn't completely halt commerce among honest players.

Part of the solution I envision has already been implemented: BoE and BoP restrictions  limit the use and availability of resources in some games today, but I think it needs to extend farther.

Mobility of more items among guild/clan members would be crucial - Perhaps after you've been in a guild for a set period of time (A day, 10 days, 30 days), some items can be freely traded among members. Another classification of items could be traded among party members, like potions and the like.

It might even require new types of "Binding", like "Trade Bound", meaning it can only be put on the AH, given to vetted guild members, or traded among linked accounts. Or "Party Bound", meaning you can only trade this item with members of their party.

This is, by nature and design, constrictive. It's a complicated solution. But I think this is the measure of control that is practical to implement. Some may argue that you simply need more gold sinks to combat inflation - How many necessary gold sinks can be practically added to a game's design?

But never, ever currency. Currency should be kept out of any trade equation, except...

2) Auction Houses / Vendors

The role AH's or Personal Vendors will play in this is critical. All items sold in general are sold on an AH or Vendor, and the only currency they accept is the primary monetary currency.  This is, again, already implemented, but in my opinion, it hasn't been taken to the "Next Level". The scenario would play out like this:

Dude A puts up Sword of Awesome on the AH for 15 Gold. There's a variable deposit charge currently set at 10%. This means the player stands to profit 14.5 Gold (Or 14, if Gold is the only denomination).

Dude B goes to the AH, sees the Sword of Awesome. However, the AH automatically marks up the item by another variable percentage. Let's say 10% again. The Sword of Awesome now has a set price of 16.5 or 17 Gold.

This has effectively taken out 20% of the swords preceived value out fo the economy in currency.

So depending on how the Developers view the state of the in-game economy,  they can combat inflation at a rate they think is appropriate. Maybe they set it to 0% on both ends, and money flows freely between players. Maybe they feel there's too much, so they hike it up to 15% on both ends. Either way, they can have a much more dramatic impact on the economy.

Of course, items can still be put up for sale to circulate money. Like the famous WoW Bread, where Gold Sellers would have buyers put up loafs of bread up on the AH for insanely high prices, and the Gold Sellers would buy it, effectively laundrying the money through the system.

I can't quite think of a way to avoid this. But the way I see it, if it's the ONLY way to do this, it's still taking gold out of the system, and punishing the player who needs to put the deposit down, and hurts the seller by making them lose more for the same value. The best I can think of is set an upper cap on what some items can be sold for, but that's even more inhibitive.

Anyway, just throwing some ideas out there. Let's hear some discussion/comments/suggestions... Flames.

[Edited for typos!]

I may be alone in this viewpoint, but I really don't consider RMT to be the demon that so many people make it out to be. I don't really care if someone buys 5000g on WoW in order to get their epic flying mount without the tedious farming, because at the end of the day, it doesn't impact on my gameplay.

What does get my back up is the level 1 gold-spammers; I can't understand why developers can't find a solution to this long-standing problem. Surely it'd be simple to restrict a new player's communication rights 'til they reach (for example) level 5, ensuring that spammers have to spend an hour or so playing the game prior to having the ability to spam for 30 seconds 'til they're ignored/reported by half the server and subsequently banned. And of course, the botters/gold-farmers... give us a game with killing/looting rules like early UO and these guys wouldn't exist for very long.

My opinion is that games should only actively protect against botters, gold-farmers and spammers. People who want to legitimately RMT shouldn't be penalised for doing so.

Originally posted by TeflonEddie

I may be alone in this viewpoint, but I really don't consider RMT to be the demon that so many people make it out to be. I don't really care if someone buys 5000g on WoW in order to get their epic flying mount without the tedious farming, because at the end of the day, it doesn't impact on my gameplay.

What does get my back up is the level 1 gold-spammers; I can't understand why developers can't find a solution to this long-standing problem. Surely it'd be simple to restrict a new player's communication rights 'til they reach (for example) level 5, ensuring that spammers have to spend an hour or so playing the game prior to having the ability to spam for 30 seconds 'til they're ignored/reported by half the server and subsequently banned. And of course, the botters/gold-farmers... give us a game with killing/looting rules like early UO and these guys wouldn't exist for very long.

My opinion is that games should only actively protect against botters, gold-farmers and spammers. People who want to legitimately RMT shouldn't be penalised for doing so.

I'm sure you're not alone in this viewpoint.

No, I don't think RMT is the demon of all things, but it certainly CAN have an impact on gameplay. Understand that I prefaced the idea with a clear specification that this applies to games that are not designed for RMT. It's all about context.

To put this in the context , let's take a bit of UO and WoW. Imagine if instead of just mounts and AH items/loot, you could buy badges or epic gear. Now take it a step further, and imagine this WAS a UO world, where the guy who's buying that gear is gonna pound the snot out of you unless you have gear good enough to compete. 

This can affect the game in 2 significant ways:

1) It ruins gameplay for those who "play by the rules". The fact of the matter is, if you're paying for gear, you're "buying your way" into the game. You can argue this any way you want, weather you favor it or not. It's what you're doing - Your paying someone off.

2) Can present a SERIOUS barrier of entry for new players. Imagine in the above scenario if a player could kill anyone - How long do you think new players would stick around after getting bashed by all the people who have very powerful gear for days on end? Now you can say this happens anyway, and that's really true. But I think it's different when you tell that new player "He got to his status by working for it for months on end" instead of  "He has a lot of money and bought his way up". Maybe that's just my opinion, but I think differently of players and communites where people can by their way to the top rather than have to earn it.

Again.. All about context, and just thinking out loud here.

Originally posted by Coldren

 

Originally posted by TeflonEddie

I may be alone in this viewpoint, but I really don't consider RMT to be the demon that so many people make it out to be. I don't really care if someone buys 5000g on WoW in order to get their epic flying mount without the tedious farming, because at the end of the day, it doesn't impact on my gameplay.

What does get my back up is the level 1 gold-spammers; I can't understand why developers can't find a solution to this long-standing problem. Surely it'd be simple to restrict a new player's communication rights 'til they reach (for example) level 5, ensuring that spammers have to spend an hour or so playing the game prior to having the ability to spam for 30 seconds 'til they're ignored/reported by half the server and subsequently banned. And of course, the botters/gold-farmers... give us a game with killing/looting rules like early UO and these guys wouldn't exist for very long.

My opinion is that games should only actively protect against botters, gold-farmers and spammers. People who want to legitimately RMT shouldn't be penalised for doing so.

 

I'm sure you're not alone in this viewpoint.

No, I don't think RMT is the demon of all things, but it certainly CAN have an impact on gameplay. Understand that I prefaced the idea with a clear specification that this applies to games that are not designed for RMT. It's all about context.

To put this in the context , let's take a bit of UO and WoW. Imagine if instead of just mounts and AH items/loot, you could buy badges or epic gear. Now take it a step further, and imagine this WAS a UO world, where the guy who's buying that gear is gonna pound the snot out of you unless you have gear good enough to compete. 

This can affect the game in 2 significant ways:

1) It ruins gameplay for those who "play by the rules". The fact of the matter is, if you're paying for gear, you're "buying your way" into the game. You can argue this any way you want, weather you favor it or not. It's what you're doing - Your paying someone off.

2) Can present a SERIOUS barrier of entry for new players. Imagine in the above scenario if a player could kill anyone - How long do you think new players would stick around after getting bashed by all the people who have very powerful gear for days on end? Now you can say this happens anyway, and that's really true. But I think it's different when you tell that new player "He got to his status by working for it for months on end" instead of  "He has a lot of money and bought his way up". Maybe that's just my opinion, but I think differently of players and communites where people can by their way to the top rather than have to earn it.

Again.. All about context, and just thinking out loud here.

As to RTM, I don't care if they exist or not.  If I am having fun in the game I am playing it, if I am not having fun I cancel.   How do you feel about people who purchase items and then place them on the AH at crazy prices?  How do you feel about people who flood the market with tons of cheap mats?  There are people who are pro and con on each of theses issues.

Your number 2 just smacks of emotional drama to me.  You are saying that someone coming into WOW today must be on equal footing with those who have been playing since release?  No, not reasonable.

at the end of the day you're only removing what 50% of the economy due to multiable transactions happening with the same currency, and that's when you're lucky.  people really don't trade/auction that often in MMO's anymore it seems.

what I would attempt to do would abuse the fact that most of the currency in games ends up in the top 20 or so percent of the player bases hands.

then hold auctions on various and somewhat temporary things such as: non-instanced housing(only having a few such places that are guild sized), some recipes, and some mounts(releasing a static 100 of such and such mount every month).   This means that as the economy gets more and more inflated the more people will end up spending.