WAR (Warhammer Online)

Scase, thank you for the corrections and info.    Like I said, it's been a while since I've even looked into the game, so I was assuming some things had changed, just not sure how much.

PvE - thats good to hear.  Last time I saw any video of pve (it's been a while) it looked fairly slow.

Character spec -  yea, I haven't seen any of the podcasts lately.  I'll have to look into that to see what they've done with it.

Gear - thats VERY interesting.  Way back when I was keeping up, they were still giving kind of a flaky answer to that question.  I think they were saying, as far as skill vs gear, that it was along the lines of "50/50".  If they really have toned the gear down, thats good news.

Also, I'd heard that they were placing more emphasis on the open world pvp now (instead of instances).  How is that working out?

Originally posted by Tatum

1) Long, tedious, pointless, pve level grind just to get to the real game.  Seems like they've improved there for sure.   There's only 40 pve levels..these levels have by the devs themselves been called 'introductory levels'  That being said there's RvR meat at ever level of the game.  There's very little you won't get to do right from the get go.  Want to PvP from the start adn only pvp? You can..because you get xp for it (they've said a good mix of both is the best path)

2) Bland pve.  Don't see how they couldn't improve here.  DAOC really did have some boring pve.   Their pve is a huge step up from anything out there.  Public quests, random hidden quests, random mobs, hidden locations, tome of knowledge (you've gotta look this up its bad ass), unlocks, city levels (yes your city is a living city it has levels! the higher it is the more cool crap you have access too!).   Their city siege even encorporates nice yummy chunks of PvE that...well if you wanna fully PWN your enemy's city you have to complete. so while PvPers are tearing up the streets the pvers will be pwning the npcs

3)  Class flexibility/complexity.  I would expect to see classes that are more "complete" and less one dimensional.

from what they've siad they're very 2 to 3 dimensional...it'll take hands on to really be able to gather any sort of opinion and even then thats a subjective subject.

4)  Uber stealth classes.  As far as I know, still none of these...right?...  no uber stealth

And then, some areas that probably won't change:

1)  Horrible class balance.  Sorry, I'd have to see it to believe it here. im with you on this one.but this relates to EVERY mmo ever released ... and not just WAR.

2)  Meaningless pvp.  Sure, pvp in DAOC was a blast at times, but in the long run, what you did in RvR had very little effect on the game world. Totally wrong wrong wrong!   The whole game thrives on everything you do.  RvR, keeps sieges, city sieges all of it benefit you.  You gain levels, you gain RvR ranks, you gain world and personal unlocks.  Your city's advance due to your progress in the war effort.   Everything matters right down to how many innocent npcs you slaughter. 

3)  Gear centric.  Don't see this one changing.  Players, apparently, would rather have their level/gear decide a fight for them, rather than their play.  They've expressed only 40 percent or less is based on gear.   If you can't figure your class out ... gear will not save you.

And, some areas that will (I'm guessing) be worse than DAOC:

1)  Character spec/build.  DAOC was a decent start, since your build actually made a big difference towards how your character played and how effective they were.  The general trend in MMO's now though, is to water this process down to the point where a retarded monkey couldn't screw it up.  Every character from a given class is basically the same, with only minor adjustments to skills/abilities and these may be easily re-adjusted at almost any time.  LOTRO did this and I thought it was a completely HORRIBLE system.

Totaly wrong you should see the Career System videos from Paris & tentonhammer...its crazy the customization you have at your very finger tips.  Hundreds and hundreds of possiblities.

2)  Challenge.  Again, another current trend.  If you want a game that attracts EVERYONE, you have to make sure that EVERYONE can play and be successful.  Unfortunately, this means that even the total non-game types need to be able to jump in and "accomplish" something within10 minutes (the cut-off point for anyone who is apparently "too busy" to wait?).

WAR does have something for everyone.  Open RvR & Keeps for those long hour players and Scenario instanced pvp for casual pvpers that last up to 15 mins.  Both matter and both gain points & xp for your Realm & City & you.    PvEers...there's dungeons & pqs.  The PQ's repeat every 5 mins after they're completed and last maybe 15 to 30 mins.   PQ's are...awsome you really need to find the various videos on these.

3)  Depth of gameplay and game world.  Basically, same as above.   Its crazy the depth they describe...if everything is how they've said ...and shown at shows...It'll be probably the most indepth game thats come out in the past four years.

4)  Risk.  Again, same explanation as #2.

Of course, if they manage to prove me wrong on most of these points I'll be more than willing to give credit where it's due.  But, again, I'll believe it when I see it...   I'm with you on this sentiement I'm totaly hyped and excited for WAR though.   But at the same time im skeptical...can they pull it off?  Is it true?   Sources say it is...and I guess thats why I'm all for supporting the game with the knowledge that is available beyond just what Mythic says.

Just to be straight with you im answering these because it appears you're looking for answers and another posters reply didn't seem adequate considering the wealth of knowledge available. So anything in red is me :)  I'm not here to change your mind..people like what they like..some like FFA, some like skill systems, some like Open Player controlled worlds etc.    WAR is a story driven world meaning yes it is structured but yet you can still do whatever you want and carve your own personal path.   Everything matters...and I mean everything.

Originally posted by Anofalye

The denial of some fanbois is epic in proportion.  This thread is about why peoples won't play WAR.  Not about you trying to convince them otherwise.  Mythic has plenty of brown-nosers and they need the harsh reality contact a little more.  If you know what is good for you and your game, stop brown-nosing.  I suspect SoE employees are non-stop praising this game, just so the devs make amazingly outrageous mistakes.

 

The lack of a real PvE focus where the WAR has no consequences, on a server, a race or whatever is just saying you accept to lose more than half of the market right away, while it would have taken minimal efforts to ensure they can at least enjoy the game a little.

Your first paragraph:
You too will play, you are not strong enough to resist.

Your second paragraph:
Nearly every MMORPG will have to have some sort of PvE aspect to it, but the problem arises when you try to build in PvP into a game that is already filled with PvE. The design and stability of the game begins to suffer. I'll point to WoW as an implementation of PvP as an afterthought, and how horrible it was for so long (at least a year and a half IMO). 

WAR's practice is the design of a game based on PvP, and then adding in PvE content once your PvP is balanced. Far easier, and less messy when it comes to rebalancing. Since your classes are already balanced for PvP, it becomes very easy to throw in PvE content based around those abilities that currently exist in game. So while their focus is on PvP in many of their updates and information, do not be scared that they are not working on PvE material. 

In their most recent update you can find them discussing: "Each city, we are told, will also be home to three separate six-player instanced dungeons."

And like the wonderful elvenangel point out, WAR is a cooperative game. "One of the trends in MMORPGs as of late has steered toward solo play, prompting many to wonder if the days of co-operation in these games are behind us."

WAR is trying to push back towards some form of coop play by making PvP affect PvE and vice versa. The whole faction works as a group to make their faction stronger and better. In PvE and PvP, everyone benefits. 

While the devs touted being able to level to max level just through PvP, don't take that as you have to PvP, it is just an alternate option for those who don't particularly like PvE. 

There is more than enough of PvE.

Aww im not that wonderful LiquidWolf...I'm just in an unusually good mood because A, its friday and B. my pay check just came in rofl :) course sucks major that most of that check has just gone to bills for the month lol

I won't be playing WAR for three reasons:

-first reason is because Barnett is realy that unfunny

-second reason is because every war needs two sides and while many people will be fighting this particular war by playing the game, I'll be fighting it by not playing it

-third and last reason is because it's just another game, not a world, I already play THE game

buying isn't p(l)aying the subscribtion

Originally posted by Tatum

Scase, thank you for the corrections and info.    Like I said, it's been a while since I've even looked into the game, so I was assuming some things had changed, just not sure how much.

PvE - thats good to hear.  Last time I saw any video of pve (it's been a while) it looked fairly slow.

Character spec -  yea, I haven't seen any of the podcasts lately.  I'll have to look into that to see what they've done with it.

Gear - thats VERY interesting.  Way back when I was keeping up, they were still giving kind of a flaky answer to that question.  I think they were saying, as far as skill vs gear, that it was along the lines of "50/50".  If they really have toned the gear down, thats good news.

Also, I'd heard that they were placing more emphasis on the open world pvp now (instead of instances).  How is that working out?

supposedly its going really really well especially since they added massive keeps and all sorts of reasons for your side to battle like hell for one.  Plus there's siege weapons that players can buy and set up to try and beat their way inside to slaughter the occupants.  They of course added npc's to the keeps that you absolutely have to kill to claim it so that you can't just Roll over the Keep in the middle of the night...you can actually go to bed instead of heavily defending it at all times.

Originally posted by SonofSeth

-second reason is because every war needs two sides and while many people will be fighting this particular war by playing the game, I'll be fighting it by not playing it

-third and last reason is because it's just another game, not a world, I already play THE game

lol so weird :)

I won't. I didn't think enough of wow to play it, so to pick up its crappy clone is almost unthinkable. I will say Wow machinema is pretty funny tho.