General Discussion

Originally posted by Wickersham

Senario 1:

I won't touch this one because I don't believe in this type of addiction.  Nor do I believe that psychology should be in the eminent position it is in.

Senario 2:

a)  These games are mostly world wide and most commericals are regional.  The same with elections - regional.  The same with governments.  I don't believe you should or have any reason to air anything specific to one area of the world when your audience is worldwide.  Also, if the ad is too intrusive or annoying the player will avoid the game which defeats the point of advertising within media.

b)  With most media you are the audience but with a MMORPG you are a participant (and in the better MMORPGs you can be the artist); so an MMORPG can be seriously considered as a private club; most governments are not allowed to intrude on law abiding privately owned clubs.

Senario 3:

Do not have ingame items being sold for out of game currency and this should not be a problem.  Once you introduce virtual property that can be bought for real money then you must accept that the buyer has a legal right to his/her property.

But in senario 3 the government decided that you do indeed own ingame items.  So if the gov. says you own them, how can a gaming company say you don't?  If you own something, how do you stop someone from selling it?

Originally posted by Beatnik59

I'd like a bit of regulation, because I'm sick of the scams, wholesale redesigns, and bait and switch that is in this industry: things that the industry cannot and will not regulate on its own.  With digital distribution, I expect the scams to become worse.

The truth is, the MMORPG publishers have us over a barrel, because the software costs us so much up front, and we have absolutely no rights to the software we own, without access to the service we don't own.  The problem is that the MMORPG publishers can turn the things we own into anything they want; including junk we would never want in the first place.  And since they won't allow us to get our money back from that initial software purchse, they have no real incentive to practice restraint.

Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.
Benjamin Franklin

"Tricks and treachery are the practice of fools, that don't have brains enough to be honest."

--Benjamin Franklin

Originally posted by Ian_Hawkmoon

 

Originally posted by Wickersham

Senario 3:

Do not have ingame items being sold for out of game currency and this should not be a problem.  Once you introduce virtual property that can be bought for real money then you must accept that the buyer has a legal right to his/her property.

 

But in senario 3 the government decided that you do indeed own ingame items.  So if the gov. says you own them, how can a gaming company say you don't?  If you own something, how do you stop someone from selling it?

When you subscribe to a subscription based MMORPG you are paying for a service but you are not paying for goods.  You are paying to participate in a MMORPG.  You are buying time to use the service they provide.  You own nothing at all except the time you spent playing the game which you spent while playing the game.  Since you own nothing within the game you can't sell anything because you are not in possession of it.  You can't even sell the time that it took you to level up your character because you spent that time while leveling up your character and any future use of your character does not belong to you if you are not going to use that character therefor you can't sell it.

I agree that there are MMORPGs out there that are not subscription based and so the above argument does not apply to them.  If a game maker sells virtual items for real money I think they hand a part of their games over to the buyer and the buyer now has a right to their property.

I say let them own their characters. Then sue them when they kill my NPCs and mobs and taking the money and items they carried!

Which government decided that you own virtual property?  Where is it written?  What is the context behind the law?  Please give weblinks to it.

It's decided on a case by case basis, and this shit has been going on for a very long time.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4397159.stm

Old news for everyone I'm sure,  but notice that last paragraph?

"The China Daily said that increasing numbers of players were going to court to resolve disputes over stolen money and game items."

Senario #3

This isn't that big a stretch, what we toil for already is our property so virtual property should follow suit. Heres my kicker though, what happens when the game is no longer profitable for the company that developed it? Games close down all the time, new technologies improve game design to the point that the old game needs to be disgarded for the next one, what then?

I really hope game developers fight long and hard to keep the government out of gaming.

I can barely stand having the government as it is now...the last thing I want is for them to get their fingers further into the internet and gaming.

Originally posted by Wickersham

 

Originally posted by Ian_Hawkmoon

 

Originally posted by Wickersham

Senario 3:

Do not have ingame items being sold for out of game currency and this should not be a problem.  Once you introduce virtual property that can be bought for real money then you must accept that the buyer has a legal right to his/her property.

 

But in senario 3 the government decided that you do indeed own ingame items.  So if the gov. says you own them, how can a gaming company say you don't?  If you own something, how do you stop someone from selling it?

Which government decided that you own virtual property?  Where is it written?  What is the context behind the law?  Please give weblinks to it.

 

When you subscribe to a subscription based MMORPG you are paying for a service but you are not paying for goods.  You are paying to participate in a MMORPG.  You are buying time to use the service they provide.  You own nothing at all except the time you spent playing the game which you spent while playing the game.  Since you own nothing within the game you can't sell anything because you are not in possession of it.  You can't even sell the time that it took you to level up your character because you spent that time while leveling up your character and any future use of your character does not belong to you if you are not going to use that character therefor you can't sell it.

I agree that there are MMORPGs out there that are not subscription based and so the above argument does not apply to them.  If a game maker sells virtual items for real money I think they hand a part of their games over to the buyer and the buyer now has a right to their property.