Age of Conan

Originally posted by Grunties

 

Originally posted by Xasapis

To Grunties:

Open beta equals no NDA for the participants. What you're describing is irrelevant.

 

I disagree on several accounts.

First, 'Open bet'a does not have any real connection with the concept of an NDA, although every other game before funcom has certainly dropped the NDA by the time open beta hit as there would be no point to it. Open really refers to the people that are able to participate in it, as in those from the general public that were not specially selected by a closed beta process.

Second, going gold DOES mean that the beta, as it previously existed, is over. A game that is incomplete when it goes gold can still essentially be in its beta process yes, which may or may not be the case with AoC, as it has been the case with several past mmos. If the game is in beta both before and after it has gone gold, that would mean the files burned on the 'gold disk' are beta files, and that people paying for said disk would be buying the beta version of the game, technically. I'm not quite sure why people are now trying to redefine these established terms, as this is the way its been for a while.

Here is a definition of beta test:

"In software development, a beta test is the second phase of software testing in which a sampling of the intended audience tries the product out. (Beta is the second letter of the Greek alphabet.) Originally, the term alpha test meant the first phase of testing in a software development process. The first phase includes unit testing, component testing, and system testing. Beta testing can be considered "pre-release testing." Beta test versions of software are now distributed to a wide audience on the Web partly to give the program a "real-world" test and partly to provide a preview of the next release. "

The gold version is the release version. It is what will be available in stores. So any progress that comes after the release version is not prerelease, it is post release, and therefore does not fit the definition for a beta test.

I am not arguing about whether there will be fixes and development made after the gold disk, which certainly will be the case. I am arguing, based on the definition of beta test, whether anything that occurs from this point on can be considered beta testing. I say it isn't, so that means what is called open beta is actually a trial.

So I really don't see the need to bicker over terms. All that accomplishes is trying to make a game look bad, or unfinished before you even play the product released. And I highly disagree about the release version. The release version is what you get to play on release day. Seeing as the version you buy on CD/DVD is going to be patched on release day anyway (as it has been with every MMO I have witnessed in the past), the patched version would be the release version.

This is a simple thing of distribution and production. CD's need to be pressed, packages need to be assembled, but all the while, the development process continues. This is true for every MMO I have witnessed to date. Please give me one MMO that had the "Release-Version" pressed and burned and shipped without any changes to said installlation at release date.

Grunties,

I so, so, so do agree with that post of yours. Actually made me write my first ever post in om mmorpg.com

All those open MMO Betas, ain't ! ... nuff said, two thumbs up for the post above!

Cheers,

m.R

I don't know. Perhaps it's me, but I fail to see the point of the crying, bashing and moaning going on.

Some of you guys act like spoiled children. Geez...

Truth is, you just want to play for FREE. Yes, it's true. You don't actually want to beta test anything, nor help the company in any way. You simply want to play a game for free. So you come onto the boards to cry foul.

Listen carefully. You don't have to play in the beta even if invited. You don't have to download anything from anywhere if you wish not to. You don't have to pay extra for anything unless you choose to do so.

Also, you really don't need to whine like a 7 year old whose mother told him he couldn't have dessert after dinner.

I pre-ordered AOC, like I do most of the MMO's coming out. I prefer to have it shipped to my office. That usually entitles me to "early access" and other goodies. However, I could care less about getting to play the game early. What am I, a 7 year old without patience?

I don't want to be hassled downloading HUGE files for current games. It just isn't worth the effort and time.

Guess what? I'll wait until I have my game CD's and install at that time. Then, I'll login and hopefully enjoy a wonderful game.

See now, isn't that easy? Now go eat your dinner or you'll get no dessert!

Originally posted by singsofdeath

 

If that definition were true, every MMO out there would not have upheld the standards of this definition per-se. None of the hugely successful ones either.

 

 Can you think of any other mmos where the open beta occured after it went gold? Every one I've ever participated in an open beta for (several), I'm pretty sure had them in the same order. I dont have the willingness to research every single out there, so if there is one, let me know. But the ones I've been in have been that way. So they do stay true to the definition.

So I really don't see the need to bicker over terms. All that accomplishes is trying to make a game look bad, or unfinished before you even play the product released. And I highly disagree about the release version. The release version is what you get to play on release day. Seeing as the version you buy on CD/DVD is going to be patched on release day anyway (as it has been with every MMO I have witnessed in the past), the patched version would be the release version.

 I wasn't bickering over the terms, I gave a definition and someone decided to argue with me because they didn't like it. You've already admitted yourself that the version being shipped is not the version you will play on release, which means it isn't finished yet. So why exactly do you object to people saying its unfinished if its the truth? You should support people that say the truth, even if it might make a game look bad. :)

This is a simple thing of distribution and production. CD's need to be pressed, packages need to be assembled, but all the while, the development process continues. This is true for every MMO I have witnessed to date. Please give me one MMO that had the "Release-Version" pressed and burned and shipped without any changes to said installlation at release date.

 None, but i never said there was one. I only said that after gold is no longer beta phase. And from that follows that every patch after gold is a release patch, and not a beta patch.

Our differences seem to be that I consider release to be the version imprinted on my disk, and you consider it the version after you've performed some number of patches on it. As you said, every game has patches, many continue to still get patches, so how come you draw the line at a dynamic number of patches on release day, and not say... the  patches to fix release problems that came a week down the line? two weeks? a month? Using your version of what constitutes the 'release' version, one could make that argument that we arent ever playing the release version.

What if you aren't able to log in at all on release day, and they dont get a working fix that lets you play until a few days in? Its happened before. Does that mean your release version doesn't show up until a few days after release when you can actually log in for the first time? Just a hypothetical.

I think your definition is too dynamic, as it can change depending on the circumstances. It also goes against what the definitions mean for non-mmos, which even in the case of a required patch to play for the first time after you've bought it, would still be considered a release patch and not a beta patch. Being an mmo doesn't magically change that.

But I guess we will have to agree to disagree. :)

 

Originally posted by Grunties

 

Originally posted by singsofdeath

 

If that definition were true, every MMO out there would not have upheld the standards of this definition per-se. None of the hugely successful ones either.

 

 Can you think of any other mmos where the open beta occured after it went gold? Every one I've ever participated in an open beta for (several), I'm pretty sure had them in the same order. I dont have the willingness to research every single out there, so if there is one, let me know. But the ones I've been in have been that way. So they do stay true to the definition.

So I really don't see the need to bicker over terms. All that accomplishes is trying to make a game look bad, or unfinished before you even play the product released. And I highly disagree about the release version. The release version is what you get to play on release day. Seeing as the version you buy on CD/DVD is going to be patched on release day anyway (as it has been with every MMO I have witnessed in the past), the patched version would be the release version.

 I wasn't bickering over the terms, I gave a definition and someone decided to argue with me because they didn't like it. You've already admitted yourself that the version being shipped is not the version you will play on release, which means it isn't finished yet. So why exactly do you object to people saying its unfinished if its the truth? You should support people that say the truth, even if it might make a game look bad. :)

This is a simple thing of distribution and production. CD's need to be pressed, packages need to be assembled, but all the while, the development process continues. This is true for every MMO I have witnessed to date. Please give me one MMO that had the "Release-Version" pressed and burned and shipped without any changes to said installlation at release date.

 None, but i never said there was one. I only said that after gold is no longer beta phase. And from that follows that every patch after gold is a release patch, and not a beta patch.

Our differences seem to be that I consider release to be the version imprinted on my disk, and you consider it the version after you've performed some number of patches on it. As you said, every game has patches, many continue to still get patches, so how come you draw the line at a dynamic number of patches on release day, and not say... the  patches to fix release problems that came a week down the line? two weeks? a month? Using your version of what constitutes the 'release' version, one could make that argument that we arent ever playing the release version.

What if you aren't able to log in at all on release day, and they dont get a working fix that lets you play until a few days in? Its happened before. Does that mean your release version doesn't show up until a few days after release when you can actually log in for the first time? Just a hypothetical.

I think your definition is too dynamic, as it can change depending on the circumstances. It also goes against what the definitions mean for non-mmos, which even in the case of a required patch to play for the first time after you've bought it, would still be considered a release patch and not a beta patch. Being an mmo doesn't magically change that.

But I guess we will have to agree to disagree. :)

 

 

 

The release version, for me, is the version I get to play on the officially launched servers, at the official launch date. Since that more or less requires the game to patch to the server-side version, I take that version as Release versions.

But I can see how you would look at it differently.

Cheers for keeping it civil though. And let's not forget that in the end, we'll both be playing the up-to-date version, regardless of how the patches before that are called.

Originally posted by mbrandybuck

... Truth is, you just want to play for FREE. Yes, it's true. You don't actually want to beta test anything, nor help the company in any way....

Yes, it is true. I do not want to help the company if I have to pay for doing so.

Obviously there are many definitions of an open beta. For me, open means

1.) No payment required in any way (preorder, FilePlanet subscription)

2.) No credit card information required

Looks like I will have to wait for a trial. So be it. I'm still hoping they open it for the public a few days before release.