General Discussion

First, i'm a Muslim from Egypt, i've been visiting this web-site for years. This is the first time i feel sad for the people here ... what's with the stupid childish comments about bombs and afraid of commenting lest you die. WILL YOU GROW UP.

Bombs and the idiocy of terrorism has nothing to do with this subject. The people who talk about this are respectable. I'll say it again, like i say it everywhere ... the media is the one to blame for everyone looking at such a large population as terrorists, do you really believe that less than 1% of the population being terrorists makes the rest of the 99% the same.

Now, on to the subject ...

[Quote]A prominent cleric, Sheikh Youssef al-Qaradawy, said modern science had at last provided evidence that Mecca was the true centre of the Earth; proof, he said, of the greatness of the Muslim "qibla" - the Arabic word for the direction Muslims turn to when they pray.[/QUOTE]

Not sure if this is true or not, have to research it a bit (whether it's Muslim or not, i don't believe what anyone says just out of his mouth without research, even if it's Einstein), but anyway ... if it's true, then why is GMT still exist as the standard?! Britain was like Rome back in the day, it forced everything to be its way or the highway, but scientifically, it should be Mecca's standard time that's used. If you don't want it to be called that, then choose ANY city on the same line and call it that.

Finally, in my humble opinion, i think that this whole subject is a bit ... unimportant. Sure, people can talk about change, but it's not urgent. It would be nice, but NOT urgent to change the whole world system over.

As a last note, please stop being extremist yourself, and don't call a whole nation terrorists based on the actions of less than 1% of them. NO-ONE in the 'normal' Muslim world calls for a 'Jihad' on USA or EU or whatever. So stop being that naive believing everything the Media tells you like puppets!

The world will be a better place when people stop being slaves to a deity that doesn't exist.

God is a lie. It's just a sick way to control people with fear. These sick bastards have so much to lose if everyone thinks logically. No more money and no more power and control.

This crap is believed by people that were too ignorant to understand how things work in this world, and need some special warm feeling that there is more to life than nothing happening after death except feeding the worms. Hate to break it to those lost people (not really, i love do it actually), but todays technology explains all those magical events in the universe, it's not some magical being with sandals and a beard.

Here are some keywords for those people still living in the unexplainable past: science, math, astronomy, physics, proof, and evidence.

It's a great feeling knowing that I'm not a slave to a book written by men almost 1,000 years after these magical people roamed the Earth a small part of the Middle East.

peaceandlove ... so you're saying that religion is there to control people through fear? well, that's a bit shallow don't you think? You know that there're 2 sides in our religion (i'll just talk about Islam), there's the 'fear' side, and the more predominant is the 'reward' side. In general, even if you don't believe in God, you DO the right thing, don't you? So why are you so angry at someone who does the right thing, whatever his beliefs, as long as he doesn't affect you! And in Islam he should NOT affect you if he's a true follower of his religion (will take time to explain).

Now you say that we die and that's it, so you believe that life has NO purpose? Isn't that a bit ... rediculous? If that's true, i would go on steal, kill, lie, cheat, betray ... etc, without any regards to consequences. Or actually ... kill myself and be done with it!

You say that we're living in the stone age because we actually believe in God? Hate to break it to you man, but if you look at the Muslim world in the 1000s era, you'll see how we were the dominant nation in science. You'll see how 'believing in God' doesn't hinder science. Read in Islam and you'll see that our prophet ordered us to RESEARCH and seek science even if it's at the end of the universe. Read about Islam before you accuse anyone believing in God of being ignorant. Because if you didn't know ... NO-ONE can write something like Quran, been proven a lot before, so won't get into an arguement about that, many tried and failed. How can man write something that can't be replicated again? So ... God said the words in Islam, not a human being. Quran is the miracle of Islam, like healing and bringing back the dead was the miracle of Jesus (with God's permission, he isn't God as people believe, another subject though). Is there a better miracle than something that can live forever without needing a proof (Quran)?

Finally ... you talk about science as if it's a religion. You know that man hasn't discovered anything really, right? He just got a drop in a sea of ocean! So, if man is so arrogant as to think he made progress ... don't know what to call someone like that really!

You say you're a Homosexual Jew? How can you be a Jew without believe in God? I wonder! (ignore that if you're sarcastic)

Edited ... corrected some mistypings!

Christians once thought Rome was the center of the world too. Fanatics can come from all walks of life. These fanatics are Muslim but I'll wager a months pay that there have been Christians (and other religous groups) in history who were just a crazed as there guys are. Is it within their right to propose such a thing? Sure. Will it actually happen? Not likely.

Keltic ... So, what if Mecca was really the center of the earth? Why bash the guy or, even worse, a whole nation before researching about the truth of what has been said?

I'll research a bit on this now, and come back later with results (hopefully).

EDIT:

I did a quick measurement ... took the total area of the left side of GMT and the right, shifted the line based on the difference in area to get equal areas ... India is the center.

If i just measure it with a ruler without taking areas into consideration ... GMT or somewhere near it is the center.

As for hard proof, i'll have to dig deeper, will get back to you if i reach something.

Just a note though ... even if the guy is wrong (which i had like 50% feeling he was), shouldn't differ much on the world's view of Muslims. For example, there's a guy in USA who says that there's nothing called Global Warming, and been preaching it a bit too much that some people actually are starting to believe him. Turns out he's been affiliated with some energy government thing, watched it on an 'American' news (a few weeks ago though). So, this guy might actually hurt the people living on earth by his actions (if it's even taken seriously in the first place), should i call Americans fanatics because one of them is an idiot? (well, 2 of them, add Bush to the mix :P)

It's simple ... don't judge a whole nation based on a few's actions. Man, isn't that sentence getting old? Said it too much that i'm starting to give up, i won't change the world anyway. Plus, it won't be long before China becomes the new Russia and the whole Middle East thing will be forgotten for a while. Just look at history and you'll know what i mean. So i won't bother, seeing as our lives is short enough not to bother THAT much about who thinks of who, how, and why.

Anyone that follows a religion is delusional. I'm not picking on muslims; all are equally crazy. I have a seperate thread worthy story about my parents church that I'll post later to further prove my point.

But, I'm not impressed that muslims advanced in science back in the day. They should have; being the second oldest civilization on the planet, one would hope to think that they would. But then they lost it. Was it because of a bum living in a cave, then flyng into the clouds on his magical flying unicorn? Who knows.

I am a good productive person without religion. Do you know why? Because I'm not an animal. I follow laws and boundries because I respect them. Not because I think some magical person is going to kill me with a lightening bolt or throwing me into a pit of fire to burn until the end of time. Nope, I do it because I am civil, rational, and intelligent.

I think it's funny that people are scared of what would happen to the world if everyone realized that there are no deities. These are the same people that start wars in the name of some god. The other side is fighting in the name of a god too. Somebody is going to be disappointed. Another thing, after reading through the many various versions of the bibles out there (because you guys don't happen to agree with what it says) I have found out that all of these deities love me. Mmmm, that makes me feel so good and I feel like I have a purpose and that I'm apart of a magical kingdom, just like Mickey Mouse. These bibles also state that gods' laws a perfect. And rightly so, he's a god right?

So we should stone to death rebellious children? Seek-out cities where people worship something other than YOUR deity and kill them and the women and children and burn the cities to the ground. THEN in this very same book, tell me thou shall not kill, and this magical god loves all? LOL! That takes some serious balls to believe all of that and be serious about it.

I can go on forever. like if this god or magical bum on the unicorn or the flying spaghetti monster can cure the sick and deseased, then why are there people in wheelchairs? People missing limbs? Babies born already dead? Don't they deserve god's love? Why didn't they get a chance?

Back to my parents, I love them, but they are lost. I cannot hold an intelligent conversation with them. Religion stole them from me. I'm sad but happy at the same time because they have something together. They are very active and for the first time, they are happy, so I respect that. Could have gone with trvelling the world or somethng but whatever. My point is, if somebody believes in a magical man in the clouds, then fine. I think they are out of thier minds, but fine. I never walk up to these god people and say, "do you know that you are really suffering from delusion and are being controled by fear of a magical being that you will ever see but will kill you if you don't listen to what he says and will reward you with immortality if you do?

So I expect the same treatment. Don't confront me about a deity. Leave them out of the schools. Leave them out of governments. Tell your god to stop talking to George Bush, and keep that silly crap to yourself.

Originally posted by os008

Keltic ... So, what if Mecca was really the center of the earth? Why bash the guy or, even worse, a whole nation before researching about the truth of what has been said?

I'll research a bit on this now, and come back later with results (hopefully).

What makes muslims so special? I don't live in the UK , muslims have no influence here. They are trying to make a point that because of their religious beliefs we should change all of the lines on longitude, latitude, timezones, and then what will we refer to the region which once was know as the Middle "EAST"? Will they look in their god book for that one too and let us know? And Mecca is which direction? Where the head points or the other end waving in the air? Is there more on this? Why should ANYbodys religion have to change the rest of the world?

I'll reply to each thing you say, BASED on our TRUE religion, not some fanatical ideas or actions ...

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Originally posted by peaceandloveAnyone that follows religion is delusional. I'm not picking on muslims; all are equally crazy. I have a seperate thread worthy story about my parents church that I'll post later to further prove my point.
But, I'm not impressed that muslims advanced in science back in the day. They should have; being the second oldest civilization on the planet, one would hope to think that they would. But then they lost it. Was it because of a bum living in a cave, then flyng into the clouds on his magical flying unicorn? Who knows.

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Second oldest is China, third is Rome, fourth is Islam, fifth is Britain. not going to talk about Mayans ... etc, i'm just making a general point here based on who affected the world in my opinion (chronologically).

The reason why we're in the current state ... think occupation, YEARS and years of occupation, sucking the blood out of our civilization and land, what did you expect? We now need someone to guide us in everything we do, we're so used to it. Don't think for second we're happy with our current situation, just take a quick look at our daily lives, of the media, you'll see how everyone is screaming at everyone to do their part so that we advance :(.

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I am a good productive person without religion. Do you know why? Because I'm not an animal. I follow laws and boundries because I respect them. Not because I think some magical person is going to kill me with a lightening bolt or throwing my into a pit of fire to burn until the end of time. Nope, I do it because I am civil, rational, and intelligent.
I think it's funny that people are scared of what would happen to the world if everyone realized that there are no deities. These are the same people that start wars in the name of some god. The other side is fighting in the name of a god too.

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So you're saying that religion starts wars? hmm, are you sure? because last i checked Hitler wasn't really going to war BECAUSE of hating the jews, everyone hates them across history (sorry, fact), but he was a crazy idiot who had the fantasy of ruling the world, he just happened to hate jews along the way.

The Mangols, did they fight for religion? or to rule the world.

Britain, did they too fight for religion?

Crusaders ... special case :P, and it wasn't for religion, it was for the riches of the Middle East, they made their soldiers delusional about fighting for a cause.

France ... was that religion too?

Stalin ... religion? (talking about his oppression)

Russia and China right now occupying their neighbors.

Finally, USA ... was going to Iraq and Afghanistan for religion, or was it for Oil?

Endless examples, and you take a few wars to generalise!

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Somebody is going to be disappointed. Another thing, after reading through the many various versions of the bibles out there (because you guys don't happen to agree with what it says) I have found out that all of these deities love me. Mmmm, that makes me feel so good and I feel like I have a purpose and that I'm apart of a magical kingdom, just like Mickey Mouse. These bibles also state that gods's laws a perfect. And rightly so, he's  god right?
So we should stone to death rebellious children? Seekout cities where people worship something other than YOUR deity and kill them and the women and children and burn the cities to the ground. THEN in this very same book, tell me thou shall not kill, and this magical god loves all? lol. That takes some serious balls to believe all of that and be serious about it.

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WHO SAID we go and kill others who don't worship our God, those words taken OUT of context from our Quran where a special situation back when non-Muslims were killing Muslims, and taking their homes driving them out. You should look at the world back then, it was a f'ing hard and cruel world in that region.

Take a look JUST after those wars ended, NO non-Muslim was even touched, as long as he leaves us in peace (logic, ha?). We're ordered to live with them in peace as long as they do in return, and as long as they leave us PREACH our religion in their land (might sound weird at first), guess that's called freedom of speach and religion. We don't go to war against a nation just because they're not Muslims, we're ordered to spread our religion, BUT, in a peaceful way.

Just for your information, we're ORDERED NOT to kill women and children, and to respect prisoners of war, and treat them BETTER than we treat ourselves. Man, READ about Islam, this is pointless!

Stone to death rebellion children? HA? the rest i've replied to.

Another thing ... yes, laws that God put in Quran ARE perfect, read them, you'll know what i mean. You can rule a nation with them and have too much perfect society. But guess even we're so stupid not