General Discussion

EQ was not hardcore back then, it was the normal thing to do. It's the new boringly easy MMORPGS that make it look like hardcore.

For the guy that says only PVP games can be considered hardcore, EQ had red servers (PVP) where you could kill absolutely anyone, but I don't remember which were the loot rules, just tried it for a few levels and didn't like how the people acted there and left.

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Originally posted by brostyn
I don't like the way you've used hardcore. Yes, if classic EQ was still around today it would be for the diehard EQ fans. Would you call someone who still uses a rotary phone over a touch tone hardcore, or someone who refused to admit the world has evolved? A hardcore game doesn't really have to have 10 minute med times. I would agree with the harsh death penalties, though. Tthe EQ grind of today is nothing like it once was, mainly because that is not the focus of the game like it was in classic EQ. I can level much faster in EQ, than WoW. Given how easy it is to twink, and all the new things that have been added to make leveling less of a journey.
If your talking about PvP, EQ is the worst PvP game ever. In classic EQ a level one could equip any item. Not exactly balanced, is it? Most definitely not hardcore, that is EZ mode.

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In some situations real life analogies just don't work, this would be one of them.

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Originally posted by altairzq
EQ was not hardcore back then, it was the normal thing to do. It's the new boringly easy MMORPGS that make it look like hardcore.

For the guy that says only PVP games can be considered hardcore, EQ had red servers (PVP) where you could kill absolutely anyone, but I don't remember which were the loot rules, just tried it for a few levels and didn't like how the people acted there and left.

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That's essentially it. At the time hard core was more indicative to people who simply played a lot. EQ was challenging and the risk/reward system was just that, a risk for a reward. What motivates people to play a game to begin with is that they feel some sense of accomplishment. Despite what would now be perceived as a time sink or grind gave someone a feeling of accomplishment back then.

If an MMO came out today with the same risk/reward design that EQ had then, it would most certainly only appeal to a very small market and thus most likely not get the subscriptions to keep it going. Designers are having to appeal to a new generation of players, long gone are the days of earning your way through, now its about instant gratification and keeping the ADD challenged (and impatient) people entertained.

As much as WoW is mentioned as the revolutionary MMO, EQ still has the respect or 'true' MMORPG players.

A few hardcore games I can think of:

UO - PKed anywhere, anytime, lose all your belongings (even get your house looted in the really early days)

EQ - Naked corpse runs deep into a dungeon - If you didn't get to your body in a week, it would decay and you would have no gear at all

SB - If your city was burned to the ground, you were really screwed - A LOT of people quit over that - Your guild basically had to start from scratch

EVE - You have to keep a lot of cash and extra ships (extra sets of gear for equivalency's sake) around because when you get blown to bits, you lose everything you've got equipped including your ship - Many people quit early on because they don't understand about saving money as a contingency plan (you can blame the good ol' American habit of credit for that - A penny saved is a penny not spent on random sh*t you don't need anwyay)

VG - Naked corpse runs deep...er wait, that got nerfed... - Nerf nerf nerf make it easier nerf nerf.../uninstallgame

By the way, most PvP games are not hardcore at all, because there are no penalties for death.  Very few PvP games actually have harsh penalties for dying.  Just being PvP doesn't make a game hardcore.  Hell look at planetside.

Lineage, someone I know played it and they spend something like 6-8 hours a day and it took a month to level up. Utter madness.

Meridian 59 was pretty hard.

It has a shooterlike fightsystem (with doomlike graphics, but you have only 1/4 of the screen for graphics, 1/4 chat, 1/4 Bag, skills and 1/4 HP, mana and stamina), so you have to appraise the distance to your enemy very good.

And newbie PKers got punished with an angel that appeared and attacked the PKer.

And you could rob corpses as well, even if he did from a mob. (A friend of mine just stood at the graveyard and waited till a zombie killed someone. But we were pretty young at those days, so i would consider it as juvenile levity)

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VG was pretty challenging, when you had to do corpse run half naked.

We noticed that we were exploring very carefully and we even tried to avoid fights.