General Discussion

Originally posted by gath

Imagine the folowing:

 

there will be somekind of sports show/game in your local "sports center".

The creators will make a couple of posters, place it in town, talk a little about it in radio, and that's it.

The crowd (500 people) comes to the show/game, has it's fun, creates 1% of problems, goes home.

(just invented that 1%... amuse me)

 

Option 2:

the creators of the show, not only make posters, talk in radio, they also make TV shows, drop publicity by plain, use promotion on stores to gives tickets, and make all kind of publicity one is capable of...

The crowd (10 000 people) comes to the show/game, has it's fun, creates 2% of problems, goes home.

(again, invented the 2%...)

 

Bottom line, the % amount of problems hasnt actually rised more, but since there just so many more people, one notices it way more (5 people on 1st case, 200 on second).

This is somewhat what is happening to MMOs... mutch more people playing it.

 

And we arrive to the second "point" i'm trying to make. On my first example, only the people interested on said show/game would come and see it. On second example the publicity reached people that maybe didnt even knew that 'thing' existed, creating the "more immature" crowd, in some way.

 

Ok, or maybe i'm just talking out of my ass Atleast it makes sense to me!

Not bad assessment if you ask me. In addition I think when a crowd is growing, it will draw more people into it. I.e. there is alot higher probability that a crowd of 200 draws even more into it than a group of 5.

Originally posted by gath

 

Originally posted by Sovrath  

 

Uh, no it's not. If one does believe in God and follows the idea of a God then "yes" that god is the one who dictates the rightness and wrongess of a situation based upon the teachings. Whether it's the Queran (sp?) or Bible, or what you you. The faith dictates right and wrong and it is up to the follower to try to live their life accordingly.

If one doesn't believe in a God then they will most likely have adopted certain moral followings based upon some teachings when they were young, society, laws, or what have you.

I dont need to go mutch further then the "conventional cliche" to show it's not that way.

 

Quoting Hitler:

"I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator [...]"

 

You know who Hitler was... right?

This kind of behaviour could be seen in any age, in any country, any person, all the way back to the crusades or the inquisition.

But, i wont discuss more religion. From personal experience i know religious people hardly ever change ideas on their beliefs, no matter how mutch we can prove them wrong.

Also, who am i to say i know more then others?

 

You origionaly said that religion and morality had nothing to do with eachother, and with that quote you seem to imply that they do and are therefore contradicting yourself.

Originally posted by Apocamentus

You origionaly said that religion and morality had nothing to do with eachother, and with that quote you seem to imply that they do and are therefore contradicting yourself.

I trying to say that a person being religious (lets assume they all belive in God) has nothing to do with right/wrong. You will find bad people that are religious, and you will find atheist peope that only do good.

Good/Bad - Right/Wrong has nothing to do with religion.

Originally posted by gath

 

Originally posted by Apocamentus

You origionaly said that religion and morality had nothing to do with eachother, and with that quote you seem to imply that they do and are therefore contradicting yourself.

Unless you think i said that religious people ARE immoral , i have no idea why you would say the above.

 

I trying to say that a person being religious (lets assume they all belive in God) has nothing to do with right/wrong. You will find bad people that are religious, and you will find atheist peope that only do good.

Good/Bad - Right/Wrong has nothing to do with religion.

Oh sorry I think I misunderstood you, I thought that you meant that ethics and religion weren't linked in anyway which I disagreed with.  However I now seem to get what you're saying (that being religious doesn't effect whether someone does good things or bad things).  I understand what you're saying, and though i do think that you get a mixture of people on either side, I do think that religion does seem to allow people to justify immoral things - this is probably why there is more religious people in prisons than in the average population.

Originally posted by gath

 

Originally posted by Apocamentus

You origionaly said that religion and morality had nothing to do with eachother, and with that quote you seem to imply that they do and are therefore contradicting yourself.

Unless you think i said that religious people ARE immoral , i have no idea why you would say the above.

 

I trying to say that a person being religious (lets assume they all belive in God) has nothing to do with right/wrong. You will find bad people that are religious, and you will find atheist peope that only do good.

Good/Bad - Right/Wrong has nothing to do with religion.

You can be seriously chastised by the church and community if you don't follow what they say...because, and this is the kicker, right and wrong are totally subjective. THEY decide what's right or what's wrong, they decide what's good ro bad. Logic is thrown out the window in lieu of their boxed in views of how they should act.

But again, you're right about the general good/right, you may be religious and still have your own view on right and wrong. With all the different religions out there, you'd think there'd be more joy in the world...but alas, tolerance isn't a part of their teaching (not to those of different faith anyway).

I would also like to point out that if a religious person did something which people would generally see as immoral, it is often because of/motivated/justified by their religion.  If an atheist does something immoral, it isn't because of his atheism that he did the immoral action.

Gath you may also want to look up Godwin's Law

"As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

Originally posted by Apocamentus

I would also like to point out that if a religious person did something which people would generally see as immoral, it is often because of/motivated/justified by their religion.  If an atheist does something immoral, it isn't because of his atheism that he did the immoral action.

 

Gath you may also want to look up Godwin's Law

"As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

I actually tryed to find on the net something about a "scandal" i read about involving preists, some time back, but i dont remember where i read it, and google gave nothing

hehe it's awesome and so true.  I love the way that it's laid out like a law of physics or something on wiki.

Originally posted by ladyattis

What bothers me the most is that its becoming even evident in everyday real world situations for me. Being that I am transgendered (yet I haven't even transitioned to full time, let alone make myself look female...) I get the same sort of flack that I do online now in the offline real world. Granted, I am have a minority that a great majority either find strange or possibly 'dangerous'/etc/blah-biggotry-here, but even years ago when I attempted to transition no one tried to be as vulgar now back then. What made then (the past) more different than today? Perhaps, there is something different in the past that did make a greater difference in attitude of people, but I suspect it's more to do with the fact that these same people weren't commonly online nor had the gall while online (back then) to assert their true feelings and vulgar attitudes. In essence, the online sphere of life is becoming a 'breeding'/training ground for this vulgarity (potentially dangerous to my person being of a significantly small, but visible minority) for which there doesn't seem to be much of a mechanism to stem the progression of it offline as there is online (the old ban hammer doesn't extend to the real world beyond maybe a .44 Magnum pistol).

-- Brede

So games like Grand Theft Auto and music like Marilyn Manson are creating killers as well? It sounds like you have a lot of bottled up rage/emotion. Have you thought about seeking counseling?