General Discussion

Success or Fail - We as players should really be hoping that MMORPG's do "not" fail...but succeed.  Why you may ask.  Because that is what will drive this game genre forward and bring more investors into it so that more MMORPG's will see the light of day.   When we the players make comments like I really wish that game would fail...and some rightly deserve to fail...we really shouldn't be wishing it because in essence when an MMORPG does fail or doesn't make that big of an impact of the genre (D&DO, Tabula Rasa, RF, Vanguard, Matrix...) then we, the players of these games are the ones that are potentially loosing future development of new MMORPG's because investors are less likely to spend money on such a huge risk.

Pray that WAR , AoC, Aion, and TCoS  do well and are big hits.  If they are we may see even bigger and better MMORPG's in the future. 

I see where your coming from, but you really haven't thought about it enough.

Think about this, when were all the good games released? In the beginning. Ok. When have most of the crap games been released? After WoW.

I don't care if there is one game on the market (and there always will be at least 1 game) as long as it's a good game. The Genre will keep going forward. Ever since WoW hit the scene the genre has actually been moving BACKWARDS as far as content and gameplay are concerned. Everyone wants to make the next WoW, but what they don't realize is that there may NEVER be another WoW and if there is it will only be after the 10mil subscribers get bored with the game, years and years from now.

Everyone now is trying to compete with WoW, a very simplistic game that will draw in the most people. Nobody cares about gameplay now, they only care about subscribers. They use an X + Y / Z formula to get the subsribers that the mathematicians at Blizzard created.

In short, I hope every game for the next 3 years is a complete and utter failure. Then maybe they will start thinking about creating one from scratch instead of using a cookie cutter they bought from the WoW Corporation.

There is no such thing as guaranteed success in capitalism.

Games are a artificial form of life, that I call "Macro-Virus", because are made of viral features.

One game invent a feature, like housing, and all other MMO's clone that feature, maybe enhance it, maybe get it worse, but he feature is "transmited" in a viral way.

A game can be unsucesfull finnancially, but add to the gene pool a new viral feature, that will spread quickly to other games.

So, what game invented /bow?  What game invented the secondary target? What game invented the assist window, the agro concept? What game invented the rest-px? What game invented RvR? What game invented perks, traits, skill trees, quest icons, crafting systems, etc..?.

These games are sucesfull in a way: inyected a feature on the gene pool, that is transmited to all other MMO's.

Even WoW is a sucess in that way, because has invented some new features that will spread.

Originally posted by Teala

Success or Fail - We as players should really be hoping that MMORPG's do "not" fail...but succeed.  Why you may ask.  Because that is what will drive this game genre forward and bring more investors into it so that more MMORPG's will see the light of day....

Success or failure of games is dependant on people buying the game and paying for subscriptions.

So, in essence, you are telling us all to go out and buy every game whether we like it or not just so the gaming companies can feel all safe and warm.

Should we buy games even if they are buggy and incomplete?

Should we buy games even if the gameplay is unappealing to us?

Should we buy games that incorporate game design elements that we greatly dislike?

Sorry but that is a load of crap.  In fact, I believe that the very reason the mmorpg genre is so stagnate right now and the reason it hasn't been moving forward is specifically because people are too willing to pay for any old garbage that developers shovel our way.  We need to be more discriminating not less discriminating.

People shouldn't pay for half assed, incomplete, cobbled together messes.

People should research games to find out details of design elements that they may or may not agree with before they spend a penny on them.  People should ask developers hard questions about their games and not settle for vague, non-specific answers.

The genre won't really start moving forward untill we STOP paying for the same old crap over and over again.  People are always screaming for innovation and yet they reward non-innovative developers by throwing money at them.  What sense does that make?

People complain about design elements in games and yet they keep paying subscription fees for those games and when another game comes out with the same exact design elements they fork over more money and go through it all again.  What sense does that make?

So don't tell people that blindly paying for any game that comes out will move the genre forward.  That's exactly the reason why the genre hasn't been moving forward.

Originally posted by Neanderthal

 

 

Success or failure of games is dependant on people buying the game and paying for subscriptions.

So, in essence, you are telling us all to go out and buy every game whether we like it or not just so the gaming companies can feel all safe and warm.

Should we buy games even if they are buggy and incomplete?

Should we buy games even if the gameplay is unappealing to us?

Should we buy games that incorporate game design elements that we greatly dislike?

Sorry but that is a load of crap.  In fact, I believe that the very reason the mmorpg genre is so stagnate right now and the reason it hasn't been moving forward is specifically because people are too willing to pay for any old garbage that developers shovel our way.  We need to be more discriminating not less discriminating.

People shouldn't pay for half assed, incomplete, cobbled together messes.

People should research games to find out details of design elements that they may or may not agree with before they spend a penny on them.  People should ask developers hard questions about their games and not settle for vague, non-specific answers.

The genre won't really start moving forward untill we STOP paying for the same old crap over and over again.  People are always screaming for inovation and yet they reward non-inovative developers by throwing money at them.  What sense does that make?

People complain about design elements in games and yet they keep paying subscription fees for those games and when another game comes out with the same exact design elements they fork over more money and go through it all again.  What sense does that make?

So don't tell people that blindly paying for any game that comes out will move the genre forward.  That's exactly the reason why the genre hasn't been moving forward.

I think the problem is with the education system.  I too have a hard time reading, although, I think I can understand a little better.  I'll put it into words that people like us can understand.

The OP said 'hope' not pay. 

Personally I don't think I'm skilled enough to make a post for you to understand the concept but I'd just walk away and do something else more constructive.

I hope bad games - fail.

I hope good games - succeed.

EA is setting the standards, as well as Blizzard, for what succeeds and fails.  The bar is growing, but the creativity is lowering.  GTA IV is a game that shows what "gamers" really want:  1) great storyline; 2) openness and freedom in a world;  3) nice visuals and audio; 4)  multiplayer; 5)  non-forced, linear gameplay.   Nevertheless, I hope EA fails at everything (its earnings show that it is).

Originally posted by Blackfoot-3

I see where your coming from, but you really haven't thought about it enough.

Think about this, when were all the good games released? In the beginning. Ok. When have most of the crap games been released? After WoW.

I don't care if there is one game on the market (and there always will be at least 1 game) as long as it's a good game. The Genre will keep going forward. Ever since WoW hit the scene the genre has actually been moving BACKWARDS as far as content and gameplay are concerned. Everyone wants to make the next WoW, but what they don't realize is that there may NEVER be another WoW and if there is it will only be after the 10mil subscribers get bored with the game, years and years from now.

Everyone now is trying to compete with WoW, a very simplistic game that will draw in the most people. Nobody cares about gameplay now, they only care about subscribers. They use an X + Y / Z formula to get the subsribers that the mathematicians at Blizzard created.

You've got it backwards...content and gameplay has increased dramatically since UO.  Considering EQ, UO and AC had basically zero content, had lousy control, UIs and had gameplay designed to stretch out every play session and slow down advancement to a crawl...the genre has moved forward quite a bit.  Its the old vets who can't let it go already and realize just how badly designed the original MMOs were.

People are allowed to be picky now, because we have options.  Back with the original 3, there were few options.  Which buggy unfinished game did you want to play back then, because they all had problems that current gamers won't tolerate now. 

If  Dark & Light or Vangaurd were released in 99, they would be successes.  Now they're deemed failures.  Wonder why?