General Discussion

Which MMO out there today represents SWG pre NGE the most? Where you can build towns and have great meaningful crafting. Where there is more to the game than just PvP.

Originally posted by Uberfatkid

Which MMO out there today represents SWG pre NGE the most? Where you can build towns and have great meaningful crafting. Where there is more to the game than just PvP.

  There IS nothing.  The formula Raph created was insanely unique....it was a hybrid of creative style.  SWG wasn't actually a sandbox game.  It just happened to blend VERY good sandbox elements into a familiar MMO setting and it worked very well considering.

  With a more detailed tutorial, and more detailed UI to help explain things (like skills and items...even locations could have been assisted with better UI) the game would have grown.  The issue is...there was no direction, and the UI did not help guide the new player very well at all.  Of all the things they should have taken from WoW...the UI was a biggie and they missed it.  WoW's UI will detail many things for you on simple mouseover.  It nearly gives you a spreadsheet on functions and figures for everything in the game, and does so in a way that isn't invasive and is actually user friendly.

  Either way, the greatest sandbox MMO cannot be replicated....because it wasn't a sandbox MMO.  It was a blend of rollercoaster and sandbox, and it was something I doubt anyone else will ever get so close to right again.  Raph sometimes (most times) has great ideals that he just cannot refine.  Heavy dreamers and thinkers are like that...they need someone to mold the concept and reign it in when it wanders too far.  No one ever gave Raph such a person, and its sad.  They simply shut him out....and make fun of his far reaching dreams.  Had SOE been competent enough....they would have been able to see the good in what he dreamed of.  Instead, all they saw were figures and sales.

  Bah....I rant, and its off topic anyway.

  The sandbox MMO is a dream.  To do it best, you have to blend it.  No one is blending...they either try too much sandbox, or have too much rollercoaster. 

Well maybe not SWG type MMO's, but what is the closest to a sandbox MMO out now?

Originally posted by Gishgeron

Originally posted by Uberfatkid

Which MMO out there today represents SWG pre NGE the most? Where you can build towns and have great meaningful crafting. Where there is more to the game than just PvP.

 

  There IS nothing.  The formula Raph created was insanely unique....it was a hybrid of creative style.  SWG wasn't actually a sandbox game.  It just happened to blend VERY good sandbox elements into a familiar MMO setting and it worked very well considering.

  With a more detailed tutorial, and more detailed UI to help explain things (like skills and items...even locations could have been assisted with better UI) the game would have grown.  The issue is...there was no direction, and the UI did not help guide the new player very well at all.  Of all the things they should have taken from WoW...the UI was a biggie and they missed it.  WoW's UI will detail many things for you on simple mouseover.  It nearly gives you a spreadsheet on functions and figures for everything in the game, and does so in a way that isn't invasive and is actually user friendly.

  Either way, the greatest sandbox MMO cannot be replicated....because it wasn't a sandbox MMO.  It was a blend of rollercoaster and sandbox, and it was something I doubt anyone else will ever get so close to right again.  Raph sometimes (most times) has great ideals that he just cannot refine.  Heavy dreamers and thinkers are like that...they need someone to mold the concept and reign it in when it wanders too far.  No one ever gave Raph such a person, and its sad.  They simply shut him out....and make fun of his far reaching dreams.  Had SOE been competent enough....they would have been able to see the good in what he dreamed of.  Instead, all they saw were figures and sales.

  Bah....I rant, and its off topic anyway.

  The sandbox MMO is a dream.  To do it best, you have to blend it.  No one is blending...they either try too much sandbox, or have too much rollercoaster. 

I would have to disagree. The fault in SWG's pre-CU days largely fell upon the unbalanced classes and its poor launch reviews. I remember back in the good old days when I would stack knock-backs with my Carbineer and TKM action, so damn OP. There were also a few noticeable bugs, but the UI itself can't be used to blame for its relative amount of unpopularity. The hype-machine that was WoW pre-release was also nonexistent in SWG's beta days. The whole point of the Sandbox MMO is for the new player to not be guided with step-by-step instructions and questlines - in SWG, you could do whatever the hell you wanted to do.

Back to the point. I often hear that many SWG players went to Ryzom, but I'm too sure about the state of the game right now. Ryzom has the same skill-based gameplay. I have never played it so I cannot really give a clearcut recommendation.

Eve is the best sandbox out atm.

Doesnt have everything SWG did, but its somthing

Hard game though, gotta be social.

Eve for sure. Its not for everyone, its very dark and cut throat, but its the best "sandbox" MMO there is.

I agree with the above, to my knowledge the most sandboxy games out there are EvE Online and Ryzom.
Both are very different in their own ways and both have what's part of the sandbox approach: a very steep learning curve including not even being close to having skilled or seen everything there is even after years of playing.
Referring to the initial question again, there's no town building in that understanding in both, though. If that's the most important thing for you, there's still other games out ther that have it without being sandboxy (Horizons I'd consider a hybrid...).

Ryzom will be back up soon, so I'd recommend giving it a try.

Thanks for all teh replys so far.

From reading these posts I am interested in EVE and Ryzom, what are some features taht set these MMO's aside fromt he rest? How is the population in each of these games?

Originally posted by Uberfatkid

Thanks for all teh replys so far.

From reading these posts I am interested in EVE and Ryzom, what are some features taht set these MMO's aside fromt he rest? How is the population in each of these games?

I don't have time to list all the features that set them apart, but here's a few about Ryzom:

* Spellcrafting - you can combine elements to create your own unique versions of spells

* Extensive crafting system

* Ryzom Ring allows you to create your own scenarios and allow others to play through them

With regards to the population, Ryzom has a small to medium sized population, but I can honestly say that it's the best community I've ever experienced. The players are very friendly and helpful!