General Discussion

Originally posted by Pappy13

Originally posted by ebonfire

There is a chat transcript found on a number of different sites from July 26 2004, but removed from the Blizzard website, even though its still a link in their old news.

http://wowvault.ign.com/?dir=articles/library&content=devchat_07_26_2004

"Hero Classes: After achieving the maximum level in the game, players will be able try to become a Hero Class. Becoming a Hero will be very difficult and arduous, since you can only become a Hero until after maximum level, we do not plan to implement Hero Classes until after all of the game content is completed."

 

I'd say that's a pretty clear indication that it probably would not be in at release.  Obviously Hero Classes were not in at this point on July 26, so unless somewhere they later said that Hero Classes were in, I'd say that's no where near a promise.

And as for player housing...

"Q: What are the plans for Housing in the World of Warcraft?

A: Player housing will not be available until after World of Warcraft has been released."

There's more to the answer, but you have all you need to know in that one line.  They still have not ruled out player housing, just that other things are taking precedence because they don't believe it's all that important.

I understand what you were saying, but I do remember the player base expecting Hero Classes at some point, to some extent it was part of the launch hype.  In that same address to the fans it was stated that Raiding, Pvp, and Hero Classes where going to be end game content paths.  I played at launch, and I quit after 3 months because endgame was thin... MC with a week lockout, and BRS.  That was it..

People cried out, "I'm bored, help", and the fanbois replied, "wait for Pvp updates and hero classes."  I've never seen a press release that stated Hero Classes were officially off the table, and the player base went on waiting.  You can spin it anyway you want, but 1/3 of the planned endgame paths was never implemented.

I guess their development cycle was slow considering they talked about Mount Hyjal and AQ in beta, both of which took substantial time to make it into the game.  /shrug

Originally posted by Pappy13

Absolutely Blizzard talked about hero classes and PvP rankings and battlegrounds.  But I don't seem to remember any official statements from Blizzard that they would be in the release, nor do I remember seeing any forum posts to that effect.

Both PVP honor points and battle grounds were in the Game Manual at release

- look on pages 133 and 134

AOC is setting the standards to what is acceptable in the year 2008 yes.  And Mythic is gonna follow the same pattern.  Infact - it looks like they are following the exact same pattern.  Funcom cut two classes from their game about 5 months before launch.   And AOC did not launch with their PVP system at all.  Even tho they didn't announch it before launch... 

So.. What are we seeing with the 2008 releases ?   Yes - we are seeing alot of loud talking PR devs hyping up the game with all possible means.  They sell everyone (including the money men) all kinda ideas and the "next generation" mmo.  But then... at some point -  Usually 4-5 months before releaase those devs have to deliver something of what they talked about.  And then... just like before - they end up pleasing the money men before they even think about the gamers.   This is what happened with Funcom and AOC and this is exactly what is happening with Mythic and WAR.  All of a sudden they realise they can't even deliver half of wheir idea  - cause lets face it... it wasn't realistic.  And thats why they are more likly to end up with a bastard of a game that ends up with comprimising everything that was the basics of the game in the first place.

This is what Mythic is now doing. Their basics was to build up a game on 3 diffrent fronts - with 6 major cities.  With 6 races.  With equal amount of arhctype classes in each race.  Yes... THIS was the orginal idea.  And all those classes... those cities.... The ORGINAL idea INCLUDING the classes was build on a gaming enviroment that has been around for decades.  Mythic is now just fine comprimising this basic of their system - JUST because they can't bother with making it work.  And why ??  Because they dont have time for it.  This is obvious signs that Mythic is ready to comprimise EVERYTHING just to launch the game.   And it really wont matter in what state they launch it.  Cause they have already made comprimises on the biggest - most TELLING and ORGINAL part of the game.   

This dissision was not taken yesterday - or last week. It was taken more than month ago. Then the devs realised there was no way in hell they would deliver half of what they had hyped up.  Now it was time to try to land the plane.  And yes...  8 of the wheels had been removed midflight. 

Now the reality for Mythics hit them.  They have to make the whole game come together.  And you know what?  How are they doing it now ?   Yes.. By removing the orginal idea.  The basic system of the game. 

Is this the future of Next gen MMOs ?   If so then I hope WoW will release 10000 expansions in TBC quality (in terms of bugfree and tested content).  Games are now the biggest single form of entertainment in the world including movies, dvds. and music (48 billion dollars) and this is what the MMO genre is offering ?

No thank you.  Its time that we - the MMO gamers actually come together to stop this kinda developing.  Like many have pointed out - its nothing new to the genre.  But its not something that is a must to make a good MMO.  Cause if 5 years of testing is needed to make a MMO - then the games should be FREE for 5 years before it comes out.  And THEN ppl should start paying for it.

Both AOC and WAR are changing the CORE of their orginal ideas.  Thats sign of just one thing.  Their ideas sucked in the first place.  And it took them 5 years to find out ?  No..  It was all just PR.

So even the mighty Bilzzard cannot release, or did not release a fully fleshed out end game.

What hope for the likes of Funcom and Mythic?

And why can't games be released in the full state that we demand?

Some of these producers, Funcom and Mythic have had releases before, so they know the market and the industry, so one would expect they get it right the second time around, or maybe closer to right then they so far have demonstrated. To me this points to something beyond their control, and i assume it is financial.

It seems Funcom has taken a lot of flak for the current industry standard of releasing games.                      And Mythic wants to avoid that flak, as ultimately it is not good for business as demonstrated by the droves of people leaving AoC, which all will agree is a good game, or will be a good game once the content and polish has been applied (whether you like AoC is of course a matter of opinion, but in essence it is a decent game).

Originally posted by nblitz

Originally posted by Redline65

IMO we've already witnessed the pinnacle of a polished MMO release. LOTRO set that standard last year.

 

Who gives a flying fish about LoTRO?

Let's talk about a game that released polished AND managed to retain subs.

Thats funny, there are tons of people playing LOTRO, and server populations are good.

I am sorry reading quests are hard for you.

Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by Pappy13

Absolutely Blizzard talked about hero classes and PvP rankings and battlegrounds.  But I don't seem to remember any official statements from Blizzard that they would be in the release, nor do I remember seeing any forum posts to that effect.

Both PVP honor points and battle grounds were in the Game Manual at release

- look on pages 133 and 134

Plz show us picutures of it.  It must be a picture of it since we have only about 15.000.000 copies of the orginal release.

Would also be nice if you could show me the statement from Blizzard 2 weeks before launch that this content was IN the game at release.  Like Funcom did with their statement about keeping DX10, Spellweaving and Siegeing away from the beta testers....

Seriously - Stop making up excuses for MMO genre to release buggy and untested content.  It is not good for anyone.  IFyou are a TRUE fanboy of MMOs instead of selfish kissass title gamer like most of you turn out to be (WOW IS THE BEST - LOTRO IS CRAP (or the other way around)) then maybe we will actually at some point see some real Next gen MMO. Until then we will just keep on getting PR and bunch of bugs and missing content. 

Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by Pappy13

Absolutely Blizzard talked about hero classes and PvP rankings and battlegrounds.  But I don't seem to remember any official statements from Blizzard that they would be in the release, nor do I remember seeing any forum posts to that effect.

Both PVP honor points and battle grounds were in the Game Manual at release

- look on pages 133 and 134

So the game manual, which was written several months before the game was released was incorrect.  This is an unfortunate event which happens quite often because the manuals get put together prior to finalizing the game.  They put that information in the manual in the event that it makes the game.

The manual is not released PRIOR to the release of the game and therefore no PROMISE was made, the manual was just incorrect upon release.

Blizzard also released a readme document which I believe stated that the manual was incorrect.  I don't have that file with me at the moment.  I'll have to find it.

Originally posted by VultureSkull

So even the mighty Bilzzard cannot release, or did not release a fully fleshed out end game.

What hope for the likes of Funcom and Mythic?

And why can't games be released in the full state that we demand?

Some of these producers, Funcom and Mythic have had releases before, so they know the market and the industry, so one would expect they get it right the second time around, or maybe closer to right then they so far have demonstrated. To me this points to something beyond their control, and i assume it is financial.

 

It seems Funcom has taken a lot of flak for the current industry standard of releasing games.                      And Mythic wants to avoid that flak, as ultimately it is not good for business as demonstrated by the droves of people leaving AoC, which all will agree is a good game, or will be a good game once the content and polish has been applied (whether you like AoC is of course a matter of opinion, but in essence it is a decent game).

 

you seem to think that doing better than FUNCOM is an achievement on itself.lets forget about FUNCOM.lets pretend that AoC never existed.

now what do we have? a huge let down by Mythic,no more no less. a spit in the warhammer community's face. a game that appears to be going downhill with no brakes even before releasing. and a publisher that will feed the lies till there's simply no more way out than telling the naked truth and pray for understanding....if they get it,they will fall again for the mistake,trust me.

oh well,Im so royally bugged by the Black Guard being removed that maybe im exaggerating a bit. but 2 weeks ago i'd had labelled Mythic as the only decent publisher out there,worth all trust support and understanding. now...oh well...

i just hope they dont screw WAR any more,i'd declare myself content with that.