Star Wars Galaxies

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by ummax

You continue to do whatever you need to do that makes you sleep at night or whatever.  I will continue to realize that they are no more or less unethical and their reputation is not any better or worse then any other gaming company in the industry and not get ripped off because that's where your headed if you dont wake up soon and realize that no the grass is not greener on the other side of the street.   

 

I can understand this position because this is how I felt before I left.  Having gone to World of Warcraft, the grass is emerald green in the catagories of Customer Service, Billing, Technical Support, Game Mechanics, Class Balance, Updates, and bug-free Reliability.  There is life beyond Sony, and it is beautiful.

This is also my experience in World of Warcraft and City of Heroes/Villains.  It was like leaving a cold, leaky room rented out by a dishonest landlord to staying in a 5 star hotel.  If SOE wants to think that everyone uses the same standard as them for quality and customer service, they're just going to continue to fall farther and farther behind.

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by ummax

You continue to do whatever you need to do that makes you sleep at night or whatever.  I will continue to realize that they are no more or less unethical and their reputation is not any better or worse then any other gaming company in the industry and not get ripped off because that's where your headed if you dont wake up soon and realize that no the grass is not greener on the other side of the street.   

 

I can understand this position because this is how I felt before I left.  Having gone to World of Warcraft, the grass is emerald green in the catagories of Customer Service, Billing, Technical Support, Game Mechanics, Class Balance, Updates, and bug-free Reliability.  There is life beyond Sony, and it is beautiful.

 

This is also my experience in World of Warcraft and City of Heroes/Villains.  It was like leaving a cold, leaky room rented out by a dishonest landlord to staying in a 5 star hotel.  If SOE wants to think that eveyone uses the same standard as them for quality and customer service, they're just going to continue to fall farther and farther behind.

yes that's why blizzard outright lied at launch when about 200,000 corrupt discs were shiped to customers who then sat for weeks and ended up doing one of two things
 

finding someone without a corrupt disk to get a good copy of the corrupted terrain.ini file or go out and buy a second copy of the game and hope it was not corrupt

Do you know why I take issue with what goes on here? because you paint Sony as the epitomy of evil yet fail to even acknowledge that something is happening in other companies of the same magnitude.  Somehow because they aren't sony its okay for this to happen.

Bottom line these are shifty unethical corporations period.  If your going to do business with them and use their products one day you wil eventualy get burned.   The fact that some are burned by one unethical corp and others are burned by another is just what happens.   If you to try to do something about the industry which you seem to want to then open your eyes and realize that sony is not the only one doing it and the fix is greater then ranting about one single wrongdoing in a veritable overflowing ocean of it.  Otherwise it looks and is irrational.   What you fail to realize is that nothing will change unless you deal with the industry as a whole.    The reason why sony, blizzard , EA (well any name you can think of actually) is capable of doing what their doing is because of the fact that this realization is something that a great many people have a problem acknowledging.  

Bottom line, just cause they didn't mess with you today doesnt mean they wont in the future.  The fact that you think your somehow safe from it by using some other corrupt companies product and avoiding only one companies product and ignore the writing on the wall speaks volumes. 

I see no comments about any other incidents described by others in this thread. (you probably dont even believe it) well unfortunately its true.  So realize that your paying money to companies who have done exactly what sony did, but somehow that's okay and then turn around and tell me how that doesn't scream hypocritical while your at it because that's what it is. 

Just by default if you have this viewpoint of one company that rips people off you should have the same view of others and should handle them in the same way , but your not.  Somehow its okay for other people to do it because in this case its not happening to you.  

Originally posted by ummax

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by ummax

You continue to do whatever you need to do that makes you sleep at night or whatever.  I will continue to realize that they are no more or less unethical and their reputation is not any better or worse then any other gaming company in the industry and not get ripped off because that's where your headed if you dont wake up soon and realize that no the grass is not greener on the other side of the street.   

 

I can understand this position because this is how I felt before I left.  Having gone to World of Warcraft, the grass is emerald green in the catagories of Customer Service, Billing, Technical Support, Game Mechanics, Class Balance, Updates, and bug-free Reliability.  There is life beyond Sony, and it is beautiful.

 

This is also my experience in World of Warcraft and City of Heroes/Villains.  It was like leaving a cold, leaky room rented out by a dishonest landlord to staying in a 5 star hotel.  If SOE wants to think that eveyone uses the same standard as them for quality and customer service, they're just going to continue to fall farther and farther behind.

yes that's why blizzard outright lied at launch when about 200,000 corrupt discs were shiped to customers who then sat for weeks and ended up doing one of two things
 

finding someone without a corrupt disk to get a good copy of the corrupted terrain.ini file or go out and buy a second copy of the game and hope it was not corrupt

Do you know why I take issue with what goes on here? because you paint Sony as the epitomy of evil yet fail to even acknowledge that something is happening in other companies of the same magnitude.  Somehow because they aren't sony its okay for this to happen.

Bottom line these are shifty unethical corporations period.  If your going to do business with them and use their products one day you wil eventualy get burned.   The fact that some are burned by one unethical corp and others are burned by another is just what happens.   If you to try to do something about the industry which you seem to want to then open your eyes and realize that sony is not the only one doing it and the fix is greater then ranting about one single wrongdoing in a veritable overflowing ocean of it.  Otherwise it looks and is irrational.   What you fail to realize is that nothing will change unless you deal with the industry as a whole.    The reason why sony, blizzard , EA (well any name you can think of actually) is capable of doing what their doing is because of the fact that this realization is something that a great many people have a problem acknowledging.  

Bottom line, just cause they didn't mess with you today doesnt mean they wont in the future.  The fact that you think your somehow safe from it by using some other corrupt companies product and avoiding only one companies product and ignore the writing on the wall speaks volumes. 

I see no comments about any other incidents described by others in this thread. (you probably dont even believe it) well unfortunately its true.  So realize that your paying money to companies who have done exactly what sony did, but somehow that's okay and then turn around and tell me how that doesn't scream hypocritical while your at it because that's what it is. 

Just by default if you have this viewpoint of one company that rips people off you should have the same view of others and should handle them in the same way , but your not.  Somehow its okay for other people to do it because in this case its not happening to you.  

Just so you know, I've taken issue with Funcom's ethics as well, on their board.  I comment on what I become aware of.  I don't comment on things outside of my awareness.  It's really that simple.  I don't have an agenda to deal with a specific company unfairly.  Currently I'm paying money to NCsoft, and a big reason for that is that the service is good, and enjoyable, and I've never been lied to.  That's just the reality of the situation.  If they come under new management and start screwing people over, you can believe I'll say something about it, with as much passion as I display in this forum.
 

Also, when I'm discussing Funcom's ethics, I don't accept people's attempts to shift the subject to SOE.  SOE has nothing to do with Funcom's behaviour.  This type of deflection just comes across as some kind of rationalization for unethical behaviour.  When we're talking about Funcom, let's talk about Funcom.  When we're talking about SOE, I prefer to stay focused on the subject at hand.

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

Originally posted by ummax

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by ummax

You continue to do whatever you need to do that makes you sleep at night or whatever.  I will continue to realize that they are no more or less unethical and their reputation is not any better or worse then any other gaming company in the industry and not get ripped off because that's where your headed if you dont wake up soon and realize that no the grass is not greener on the other side of the street.   

 

I can understand this position because this is how I felt before I left.  Having gone to World of Warcraft, the grass is emerald green in the catagories of Customer Service, Billing, Technical Support, Game Mechanics, Class Balance, Updates, and bug-free Reliability.  There is life beyond Sony, and it is beautiful.

 

This is also my experience in World of Warcraft and City of Heroes/Villains.  It was like leaving a cold, leaky room rented out by a dishonest landlord to staying in a 5 star hotel.  If SOE wants to think that eveyone uses the same standard as them for quality and customer service, they're just going to continue to fall farther and farther behind.

yes that's why blizzard outright lied at launch when about 200,000 corrupt discs were shiped to customers who then sat for weeks and ended up doing one of two things
 

finding someone without a corrupt disk to get a good copy of the corrupted terrain.ini file or go out and buy a second copy of the game and hope it was not corrupt

Do you know why I take issue with what goes on here? because you paint Sony as the epitomy of evil yet fail to even acknowledge that something is happening in other companies of the same magnitude.  Somehow because they aren't sony its okay for this to happen.

Bottom line these are shifty unethical corporations period.  If your going to do business with them and use their products one day you wil eventualy get burned.   The fact that some are burned by one unethical corp and others are burned by another is just what happens.   If you to try to do something about the industry which you seem to want to then open your eyes and realize that sony is not the only one doing it and the fix is greater then ranting about one single wrongdoing in a veritable overflowing ocean of it.  Otherwise it looks and is irrational.   What you fail to realize is that nothing will change unless you deal with the industry as a whole.    The reason why sony, blizzard , EA (well any name you can think of actually) is capable of doing what their doing is because of the fact that this realization is something that a great many people have a problem acknowledging.  

Bottom line, just cause they didn't mess with you today doesnt mean they wont in the future.  The fact that you think your somehow safe from it by using some other corrupt companies product and avoiding only one companies product and ignore the writing on the wall speaks volumes. 

I see no comments about any other incidents described by others in this thread. (you probably dont even believe it) well unfortunately its true.  So realize that your paying money to companies who have done exactly what sony did, but somehow that's okay and then turn around and tell me how that doesn't scream hypocritical while your at it because that's what it is. 

Just by default if you have this viewpoint of one company that rips people off you should have the same view of others and should handle them in the same way , but your not.  Somehow its okay for other people to do it because in this case its not happening to you.  

Just so you know, I've taken issue with Funcom's ethics as well, on their board.  I comment on what I become aware of.  I don't comment on things outside of my awareness.  It's really that simple.  I don't have an agenda to deal with a specific company unfairly.  Currently I'm paying money to NCsoft, and a big reason for that is that the service is good, and enjoyable, and I've never been lied to.  That's just the reality of the situation.  If they come under new management and start screwing people over, you can believe I'll say something about it, with as much passion as I display in this forum.
 

Also, when I'm discussing Funcom's ethics, I don't accept people's attempts to shift the subject to SOE.  SOE has nothing to do with Funcom's behaviour.  This type of deflection just comes across as some kind of rationalization for unethical behaviour.  When we're talking about Funcom, let's talk about Funcom.  When we're talking about SOE, I prefer to stay focused on the subject at hand.

Yet you agree that the grass in blizzards games are "emerald green" and they do nothing wrong?

There is no deflection here only the fact that there are a great many people on this board who seem to think that other companies are safe, but they are not.    That by not playing a sony product and paying their money to someone else means that they not doing exactly what people who pay sony money are.   Things like that. 

Fact is people who come to this forum and ask about the game and pay money for the game are in fact no different then you.  We are not dishonest people betraying vets or doing some sinful evil thing, but that is how we are painted.  We are not "advertising" or anything else when we get shouted down for liking something in the game.   However the level of disrepect extended to anyone who says they like the game and flames they endure come from people like you who seem to feel that its okay to do so.  The fact of the matter is they are you only today, this month and this year they have not experienced what you have in this game, but possibly did in the game that you find to be totally blame free.  Its all relative and personal and honestly these forums they belong in one giant forum about company hatred.

sony did bad and that will not change, and they have apologized for what is possible for them to apologize for, but when I read that they are "the worste" and the most corrupt or whatever that's hogwash.   Unforunately though that is what happens when people seek to isolate one company that is bad from a pile of companies that are bad.   We have people on this forum who honestly believe that every other company out there despite what they are told is good.  When someone brings up another company on this forum say oo the one that is going to run the fabled saving grace MMORPG.  There are actually people on this forum that think that that company has done no wrong and only sony does this.   That's misleading.   

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Originally posted by Malickiebloo

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Originally posted by Fishermage

 

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Originally posted by Malickiebloo

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Originally posted by Fishermage
 
 

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Originally posted by Malickiebloo

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Originally posted by Suvroc

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Originally posted by ummax
 
 
 
  I will continue to realize that they are no more or less unethical and their reputation is not any better or worse then any other gaming company in the industry and not get ripped off because that's where your headed if you dont wake up soon and realize that no the grass is not greener on the other side of the street.   

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So in your opinion the whole industry is unethical and you've got nothing to say about that?
 

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Every business could be looked at as morally bankrupt , It's part of doing business (chasing the all mighty dollar). Your hatred is yours because you experienced the cause of it. Just like anyone effected by Blizzards overzealous bans experienced their source of hatred .AOC subscribers met their cause through Funcom and their double speak (lies) , CCP's customers who were effected by dev interference in the game world (while posing as players) gained their source of hatred there and nowhere else.
DID SOE take a few steps to many while walking all over their player base ? Sure , I can agree with that. However realize I was there too , I experienced those causes for hatred myself. If I were one of the many afftected by the cases I pointed out above, I'd probably carry their torch as well .
I have to completely agree with ummax here , The grass really isn't much greener on the other side . i've been there for almost three years ,It's a rather ugly shade of dried up browns.It just comes down to which unethical treatment you've been exposed to .

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"Everyone is doing it" is NOT a relevant argument against the company we are discussing doing it. It is simply a rationalization, and serves no purpose other than to obfuscate the discussion.
It is something ONLY guilty parties usually do, not honest people honestly discussing an issue do.
 

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That wasn't my point (everyone is doing it), I was basically agreeing with the whole discussion in general , With the point being unless you experienced it you're not going to understand it .

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The "whole discussion" is about why have SOE's apologies fallen short -- to which certain persons have tried to troll the thread and obfuscate the issue by bringing that "everyone and his mother is an SOB as well," so people should accept SOE doing it too.
 
It's a junk argument, and has no place in a reasonable discussion.

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There's no way to have such a discussion , Without judging their actions compared to others. If you are trying to determine whether their actions were inexcusable , Does it not make sense to weigh them against other actions to see where the acceptable limit is ?
You're basically cutting off any discussion with that attitude. I don't think it could be considered a reasonable discussion without factoring in the treatment you receive elsewhere.

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Fraud is fraud; it's wrong or it isn't -- cpmparing a fraud of a particular company vs other company's frauds serves no one's interest.

We are not discussing what is a proper standard here; we are discussing what SOE did, how they attempted to rectofy it, and why it isn't good enough. That has nothing to do with other companies. Bringing up such irrelevancies serves no purpose other than a weak attempt to diffuse what they did wrong. It is a wilful hijack of the discussion, and one that certain people use every time SOE is criticised.

By all means, if you want to start an industry standards discussion, do so -- it doesn't belong where it doesn't belong though. In this thread, it is an obvious hijack.

Alrighty, if I've in any way steered this thread off course, I apologize. I made a more Sony SOE thread about how their name has taken a dive in the last two decades here:

Sony's Disease Touch:

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/195503

Originally posted by Fishermage

 

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Originally posted by ummax

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Originally posted by ArcAngel3

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Originally posted by saint4Go