The Saga of Ryzom

I have been seeing an awful lot of criticism directed at new players in the chat channels. Particularly when someone asks about something such as jumping...they are met with a lot of "you don't need to jump" or "this isn't WoW, if you want to bunny hop go play that." Just the other day, there was some drama about a player supposedly killing someone else's mob (as if mobs belong to players), and was accused of being a "WoW noob." It turned out that accused player actually just thought the other player was in trouble and was trying to come to the rescue and got flamed to death in whispers and then in public channels when she tried to ignore it.

I have to admit that for as much as people promote the community aspect of this game, I would think players could be a bit more mature about other players' perceptions of the game's flaws or shortcomings. While it may indeed be true that a lack of jumping may not be critical for the game, it's the hostile reaction to non-conformist thought that disturbs me. Players get extremely defensive and sometimes insulting when they think someone is criticizing the game. Reactions to new players' concerns in this manner does not foster healthy growth; rather, it creates a sense of a hostile and exclusive community.

I am not attacking this game or any player specifically. I just think that being hostile to new players is not going to help Ryzom retain new players in the long run. Perhaps instead of slinging comments about bunny-hopping, rather admit that yea there is no jumping and explain the strengths of the game that make up for it. Help people understand that games can be different from each other, and still be good games. Don't cannibalize the young or you're dooming the game to another closure.

Heya Vernd!
I think it's just a result of Ryzom having an Universal chat channel, the jump issue has been discussed so many times that peoples responses might become a bit snarky. Between us, jumping would have been great fun, but it's not much we can do about it. The devs says it requires LOTS of work, and most current players would like to see many-many other improvements first.

Besides, right now I think most people are happy they got their world back.

Don't get me wrong, I am fine with no jumping. I loved the original Star Wars Galaxies and it didn't have jumping either.  And I certainly do not blame people for getting tired of repetitive topics--however, in game you can just flip to the system channel for a while and enjoy some zen space.

Really all I am saying is people should consider the possible results of their words in the universal channel. I personally do not take part in the conversations unless I have something to add, but I do see much of what is said by experienced players and to be honest, even though it's not directed at me it's still discouraging. Considering how fast the new player invites have been going out, I am likely not the only person watching that channel. That's all. Again, not flaming anyone here. The game is really cool and I know we'd all like to see it thrive.

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Really all I am saying is people should consider the possible results of their words in the universal channel.

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Naturally, all of the following is subject to my own experiences and perceptions. It is my attempt to explain the psychology that may be causing aggressive responses to some questions and comments.

The tone of a question has a significant effect on the tones of the answers. For example, many in the Ryzom community don't take kindly to someone insinuating that Ryzom should be more like other games. It's not that we're trying to squash non-conformist thought, it's that we're trying to defend our non-conformist game.

On the other hand, legitimate concerns presented in a reasonable manner are usually met with understanding, politeness, and workaround suggestions. Take this for example.

You mentioned the jumping issue; here's an elaboration on how that sort of question might play out:

New Player A: What's the button to jump?
Veteran or Slightly Less New Player 1: there is none
Veteran or Slightly Less New Player 2: You can't jump
Veteran or Slightly Less New Player 3: try /alert
New Player A: Oh ok, I just wish I could jump over small fences and stuff
New Player A: It feels limiting to not be able to jump
Veteran or Slightly Less New Player 4: The rest of the game is much less limiting :)
Veteran or Slightly Less New Player 2: maybe there'll be jumping someday but it shouldn't let people bunny hop

New Player B: how do u jump
Veteran or Slightly Less New Player 1: there is none
Veteran or Slightly Less New Player 2: You can't jump
Veteran or Slightly Less New Player 3: try /alert
New Player B: thats ghey
New Player B: all the good games have jumping
Veteran or Slightly Less New Player 2: maybe there'll be jumping someday but it shouldn't let people bunny hop
New Player B: why wasnt jumping put in this is stupid
Veteran or Slightly Less New Player 5: If you want to be a bunny hopping WoW noob, go do it in WoW
Assorted Veterans or Slightly Less New Players then pipe up with responses and conversational contributions ranging from aggressive knee-jerk reactions to reasonable statements of opinion and explanations of development history and community bias.

Basically, 90% of the time we're just like non-aggro mobs: We don't attack unless attacked. The other 10% of the time, it's just one or two people in a bad mood who misunderstand something and reply inappropriately. A few others see their messages and agree with them reflexively, then go off on tangential rants, leading to the appearance of ganging up on someone whose mistake may've been as simple as poor choice of words.

Polite, open-minded players who avoid doing any of the following will not be flamed:

- Compare Ryzom to other games negatively, i.e. saying or implying that because Feature X exists in Game Y, it should also exist in Ryzom regardless of whether it actually fits with Ryzom's unique set of mechanics and community factors.

- Make a minor quibble out to be a game-breaking travesty that should have us all running for the hills.

- Whine frequently, never attempting to understand and work around what bothers them.

- Complain vaguely about the game being too hard.

- Express frustration without explaining exactly what their expectations are, how specific aspects of the game do not meet those expectations, and what could be done to alleviate their frustration without sacrificing the non-easymode sandbox nature of Ryzom. Failure to produce those explanations means they're whining instead of providing intelligent, legitimate criticism.

My experience there was a bit different. The open chat channel was practically a help guide that rolled by at a constant rate. If I stood still long enough to watch, I ended up writing a ton of things down that scrolled by.  Pretty much never had to actually ask anyone anything because it was already being asked in game.

I did notice some retaliation replies to people saying , "OMG THIS GAME SUX" and the like but overall, I ofund thecommunity to be very helpful on the open chat. And very forgiving when you posted in it accidentally instead of the private chat channel.

The game is getting more attention now than it used to, more publicity. Plus it's free for now, so those who would normally not have paid for it have no barrier to getting in. When you open up to a larger percentage of the gaming population with no boundaries, the ftp asshats start filing in eventually.

They need to get subs going again.........quickly.

Excellent response Katriell, yes I read all of it.

We are basically in agreement. That's all I am really saying, is think about what you're about to say before you say it. It may seem like crushing some pesky inconsiderate noob is the right thing to do, just realize the people talking in the channel aren't the only ones that can read it and getting nasty might not be the most effective tool for building a nice community in the game.

I am a firm believer that it's the players that set the tone of a game; this is especially true in sandbox games like Ryzom. it's totally unrealistic to believe that everyone is going to get along 100% of the time but we all have control over how we react. ;)

Originally posted by kefkah

My experience there was a bit different. The open chat channel was practically a help guide that rolled by at a constant rate. If I stood still long enough to watch, I ended up writing a ton of things down that scrolled by.  Pretty much never had to actually ask anyone anything because it was already being asked in game.

I did notice some retaliation replies to people saying , "OMG THIS GAME SUX" and the like but overall, I ofund thecommunity to be very helpful on the open chat. And very forgiving when you posted in it accidentally instead of the private chat channel.

Yes, this is not meant to deride all the very helpful players that populate the channels and go out of their way to help newbies. I myself have benefited greatly from their assistance and those efforts should also rightfully be noted while discussing this topic. My apologies for seeming to overlook that; really, I meant to only address some of the negativity that seems to come from a small minority. I didn't want to seem like I was calling anyone out on the carpet and being confrontational, and I suppose I may have inadvertently painted all players with the same brush. That was not intentional.

If this thread results in one of a couple things happening, then I think the dialog here will have served its intended purpose.

1) Someone thinks to their self "meh, is it really worth flaming this guy? Nah, I'll just go on about my business."

or 2) Someone who felt they were treated unfairly for simply speaking their mind reads the thread, and realizes in any community there's going to be some bad apples but they don't necessarily reflect the overall maturity level of the game's community.