General Discussion

Originally posted by PatchDay

Older MMOs had:

- realtime dodging
- seamless environments
- deep character development allowing you to skill up how you wanted. Crafters could be pure crafters; pvpers could skillup from duels
- player housing
- boating
- realtime collision detection
- gear bonuses were incredibly minor making the games more based on player skill
- you could 'disguise' who you were by wearing overlapping clothes
- Meaningful PVP whereas two Guilds can wage wars resulting in a loser / winner. The winning guild could beat down the losers so bad, they had to surrender due to lost of resources.
- PVP battles had a clear victor; clear loser due to attrition
- Emergent gameplay

Older MMOs were decades ahead of their time. DECADES! There is no way in hell Mainstream MMOs of today can touch them in complexity.

Oh?  Name a game that has all of that that is actually out, not some fantasy-land game filled with empty promises and dreams.

Originally posted by Locklain

Originally posted by PatchDay

Older MMOs had:

- realtime dodging
- seamless environments
- deep character development allowing you to skill up how you wanted. Crafters could be pure crafters; pvpers could skillup from duels
- player housing
- boating
- realtime collision detection
- gear bonuses were incredibly minor making the games more based on player skill
- you could 'disguise' who you were by wearing overlapping clothes
- Meaningful PVP whereas two Guilds can wage wars resulting in a loser / winner. The winning guild could beat down the losers so bad, they had to surrender due to lost of resources.
- PVP battles had a clear victor; clear loser due to attrition
- Emergent gameplay

Older MMOs were decades ahead of their time. DECADES! There is no way in hell Mainstream MMOs of today can touch them in complexity.

Oh?  Name a game that has all of that that is actually out, not some fantasy-land game filled with empty promises and dreams.

Current, EVE ONLINE.

Older MMOs: Ultima Online, AC1

Originally posted by PatchDay

Originally posted by Locklain

Originally posted by PatchDay

Older MMOs had:

- realtime dodging
- seamless environments
- deep character development allowing you to skill up how you wanted. Crafters could be pure crafters; pvpers could skillup from duels
- player housing
- boating
- realtime collision detection
- gear bonuses were incredibly minor making the games more based on player skill
- you could 'disguise' who you were by wearing overlapping clothes
- Meaningful PVP whereas two Guilds can wage wars resulting in a loser / winner. The winning guild could beat down the losers so bad, they had to surrender due to lost of resources.
- PVP battles had a clear victor; clear loser due to attrition
- Emergent gameplay

Older MMOs were decades ahead of their time. DECADES! There is no way in hell Mainstream MMOs of today can touch them in complexity.

Oh?  Name a game that has all of that that is actually out, not some fantasy-land game filled with empty promises and dreams.

 

Current, EVE ONLINE.

Older MMOs: Ultima Online, AC1

Umm, ok. . .

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Originally posted by PatchDay

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Originally posted by Locklain

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Originally posted by PatchDay

Older MMOs had:
- realtime dodging
- seamless environments
- deep character development allowing you to skill up how you wanted. Crafters could be pure crafters; pvpers could skillup from duels
- player housing
- boating
- realtime collision detection
- gear bonuses were incredibly minor making the games more based on player skill
- you could 'disguise' who you were by wearing overlapping clothes
- Meaningful PVP whereas two Guilds can wage wars resulting in a loser / winner. The winning guild could beat down the losers so bad, they had to surrender due to lost of resources.
- PVP battles had a clear victor; clear loser due to attrition
- Emergent gameplay

Older MMOs were decades ahead of their time. DECADES! There is no way in hell Mainstream MMOs of today can touch them in complexity.

---

Oh?  Name a game that has all of that that is actually out, not some fantasy-land game filled with empty promises and dreams.

---

 
Current, EVE ONLINE.
Older MMOs: Ultima Online, AC1

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The MMO genre would be ten times better if they had evolved more towards the AC1 model, rather than the EQ model. I played AC for 4 years. Since then I have played one game for half that time, CoH, DAoC and SWG for one year and other than that I have spent at the most 2 months in a game before I was bored of it. That list includes: Vangaurd, EQ, EQ2, AC2, WoW, AoC, Horizons...et cetera ad nausium.

Genre hasnt changed, only the people have.

When I was a teen, I couldnt get enough games. Now in my 30s I cant be arsed to beat a game.

Originally posted by metalhead980

Time for me to say goodbye guys.

While I've only been posting for a few months i've been a lurker on this site for over five years.

Todays MMO genre as a  whole Is lacking and has become a  theme park suited to the mentally challenged.

When the majority of the community calls players that want a complex, immersive and challenging game world "No lifers" it's time to go.

No longer do these players want a complex game that takes years to master, No longer do people want gaming to mean anything, no complexities, no risk, They don't want to put any time into a game world.

Everything needs to be spoon feed to them, they need powerful avatars with minimal effort and god forbid they would need to play with other individuals at all.

So i bid thee farewell It's been nice and Maybe in 5-10 years this genre will evolve and be playable again.

 

 Edit: A few posts down someone actually tried to use the "we've grown up" line on why simple mmos are in atm.

You are talking to a father of four and a husband with a full and part time job. The feeling you have of needing to play a simple MMO due to RL is all a state of mind you can enjoy a complex game world with limited play time. Stop using the I have a life excuse its BS

EDIT2: Now if I could just find a way to cancel my account with this forum.

Final Edit: Am I the only one that has noticed MMO's becoming simpiler to play? This is the only genre that has gone the way of romper room as "evolution". Look at all other genre of games, FPS, Rts, Racing, single player MMO, action they all have evolved and become deeper and more technical with robust features.

Oh and no I don't consider myself mentally superior to anyone, but I will fight back when players call me a no lifer for wanting more than what todays MMOs have to offer.

Yes I did defend Ryzom but that game along with Eve are a dying breed due to the masses wanting unforfilling games.

Peace ./hug

Why are you quitting unless Earthrise, All points Bullentin, Fallen Earth, WELL Online, Mortal Online, Champions Online, etc hold no interest for you. They all seem to pay homage to the older games

Also, like you already pointed out, there is Saga of Ryzom and EVE. Why are they a dying breed? EVE has more subs then many linear MMOs please look at mmorpg charts. Granted, it's not WoW numbers but its good

There is no reason to leave the site for the reasons you gave.

Originally posted by edmonal

Separate? So one that deals with games that exist, and one for the games people wished existed? As for depth, that's in the eye of the beholder and it would be difficult to come up with a common definition. Complexity has always struck me at attempts to distract and stall the player, to hide the lack of content that's in the game.

There have indeed been games that attempted to be more than massively single player online games.

I'd like to hear the argument that says WOW or any similar game has more depth than UO, Eve, or Pre-CU SWG.  Yeah, the word may not mean much, but those games certainly have more beneath the surface than WOW or its ilk.

Complexity is a form of content.

You missed the point entirely these older mmorpgs is what made the fun actually last someone, of course there arent any out now because games are dumbed down for people who cannot get instant gratification, my guess its mostly due to console games and the new mainstream design, this is probably why many kids dont like oblivion, and how many say elder scrolls is better then oblivion which in some ways it is but some ways it is not.

There is a differance between depth and skill, and shallowness which will put the illusion that there is depth and complexity when in reality its just overshadowed with simplicity. A good example is that wow at first appears to have some depth in crafting and it appears its skilled based but over time you start to realize its mostly about gear and the crafting is the same thing over and over.

Time is not a measurement of difficulty or level of mastery.

I personally think there is much more skill needed to master todays MMOs than those of the past.  The difference is that now anyone can play MMOs, but few in comparison really maste