General Discussion

---

Originally posted by DamonVile

---

Originally posted by Ashkent

gotta love the fanboys - "my game will be the best, even though i haven't even seen any of it yet! Everything else will fail."
this is the kind of crap we don't need on this forum

---

I don't know, I think they're kind of funny. They're no worse then the "OMG that game sucks, I played it for a whole month so I know " people.

---

---

Originally posted by Ashkent

or the EVE fanboys who advertise their game even when its specifically mentioned to not even suggest EVE or the EVE fanboys who put down people because they don't play EVE.

---

---

Originally posted by Anofalye

---

Originally posted by asdar

I told no lies, and I didn't act like I had inside information. He did.

---

FAQ from Sigil:

1.4.3  Long paragraph that mean best loot is given to raiders and screw all non-raiders, they lack and they can do a more "worthy" activity if they want to be uber or leave (all you do is continue their example which they purposefully stop at grouping).

1.7.4 The Vision.

Now see, I am not talking about having A vision, but THE vision, not the same, like AN orc  or A Orc  was not the same in Oasis.  The fact they specify Velious as the last EQ expension, which is the most raid-oriented expension in the most raid-oriented game is certainly no small consideration. 

The Vision is a clear way to tell all uberguilds in EQ:  Come, this is going to be a new raiding paradise, we will trash talk a little about grouping been the center of everything but we know better.

 

Maybe you are just unable to read Brad's way of talking.

 

PS: I start to think Brad is behind all the lying attitude of Johny, he seem to lie less and be more straightforward lately.

---

The word Raid is used exactly one time in 1.4.3 as an ending line to how dungeon crawls will be back and how they'll have a lot of group content, they said they'll also have raiding. Read the entire 1.4.3 for yourself and don't take my word or his.

1.7.4 says that Vanguard is the developer and that they're working with Microsoft. If you want to bash Microsoft I'm right there with you but that has nothing to do with raiding.

Velious was the last grouping expansion. If you played EQ you know that I'm telling you the truth that in Velious places like ToFS, Crystal Caverns, VL WW, Sirens Grotto and many more were all group areas. Even Kael, Thurgadin and SS were group fights.

Luclin Started the anti-group era where you had to defeat a large raid boss just to gain access to the next zone. That's when raiding became the end-all be all of the game.

Read the FAQ for yourselves and decide for yourselves. That's all I'm saying.

There's one huge reason that I don't think Vanguard will be for me and that's linked mobs. I'm not selling the game. Don't buy the WoW fan's misinformation. Go to the site and you decide if 1.4.3 says that raiding is the focus. It's a joke to even portray that as true.

Screenshots mean nothing, remember how good the screenshots of SWG looked, then we got the game and it looked nowhere near as good (Or it lagged to hell and back if you turned the settings up). When the beta comes out you can say it will flop or it won't, not before no ones played it.

Does this game have pvp?

If not, fail bigtime.

I feel the same way as you Radshak, I'm a convert to PvP.

Vanguard is being designed as a PvE game, but they have said that they'll have PvP ruleset servers. If the PvP doesn't work out I'll probably just be on for a bit as well.

---

Originally posted by asdar

They have said that they'll encourage grouping and that it won't be easy for a solo player to make it.

What does it mean to not fail.  Before WoW got 5 millon subcribers 100-200k was a pretty successful game.  What is the measure of success now?  I guess it depends on the game SWG had about 350k just after release and it was considerded a huge  failure because it could have been a smaller version of what WoW is today if only they had made a good game.  While some small games might be considerded a success just if they can survive.  Brad has said they hope to get between 250k and 500k.  That sounds quite ambitous to me.

I agree witht the poster that Vanguard has a great chance to succeeed even if I am not sure what succeeed means.  Vanguard's target audience is not the causual gamer.  It is not being marketed at the masses.  Its target audience is the "core" gamer.  What is that?   No idea, but it is geared much more to the hardcore, experienced, and more mature player than other games.   Vanguard promises to bring challenge and skill back to online games.  Its fanbase is made up of people that are tired of dumb downed easy games. Vanguard's fanbase is very excited about this game as games made for this audience is quite rare.  My guess is you like the design of the game you will like the game even if the gameplay is only mediocre as you know there will not be anything designed for this audience for a long time.

Vanguard offers to do many new and novel things.  It has 3 spheres. Adventuring craftinga and diplomacy.  Each sphere has been promised to take an equally long leveling time to max. The spheres are interdependant.  To get the best items you will need help from all 3 spheres.  Little is known about diplomacy.  Vanguard also promises full crafting, city building and construction, player built ships, ship battles, no instancing at all, and a very interactive combat system.  The combat system seems to take a lot from DAOC bringing in reactionary, positionary and chain special attacks.  It adds in group special attacks and its most novel feature perception.  From the beta write ups perception appears to be what seperates skilled groups from unskilled.  Perception (if you have high enough skill) allows you to see the next attack in the mobs queue and the mob to see your next planned attack.  Both you and the mob can then try to counter those attacks if the attack poses a serious enough threat.  Silky Venom has an excellent write up that describes the combat system much better than I can.

http://www.silkyvenom.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1893

What worries about me Vanguard is that its trying to do so many new and novel things particularily Diplomancy along with fleshing out and balancing 16 classes, creating a huge world much much bigger than  that of WoW.   The have promised that the dungeons will be huge and some could take weeks to explore. Can they do all of this and make a good, polished and fun game.  I don't know.  It is a lot to ask of any developer.   Sigil is made up of experienced devs, who have done an excellent job of communicating information and they have met all their deadlines in a very punctual and business like fashion.  They have a lot included in beta already.  A lot more than I would have ever expected for such a short development time.  From all the information we can see one can only guess that things are going well.  Could it all be smoke and mirrors?  Maybe?  But they are meeting their deadlines and might be the first game that I have ever seen meet a release date.   All we are doing is guessing here.  But the odds look good that Vanguard will be a good game.  Will it be WoW.  No.    Will it be a niche game?  Maybe.  If its mediocre or bad probably only those liking the design will play.  But if its polished, fun and enjoyable even those that hate the design will play it.

All we can really do is look to previous successful games developement and those that have failed.  Vanguard's development seems to parallel those of previous games that have done well.   I agree with the original poster that Vanguard's odd's of being a success are good.  But I disagree that there are not other games in development that won't do well.  HJ did great at E3 and received glowing praise.  Conan appears to be generating a huge following.  Star Trek Online may turn out to be another SWG but there are tons of people who will want to play it regardless.  LOTR seems to be having a rough time in development but who would not want to play in middle earth for at least a month.  Reports about DDO all seem to be solid even if its not really a MMORPG.  Not to mention if someone ever makes a mediocre or better pvp game there are fans just waiting in line to subscribe.  I am sure I am missing other games.  But there are a number of other games that will attract players and be successfull by at least some measure.   I agree Vanguard's odds look good but there is no sure thing all we can do is hope.  Vanguard is the first game since Black isle was making single player games that I actually am somewhat confident that it will be good.  I hope that is more than wishful thinking but things do look good.