Vanguard: Saga of Heroes

Since I've read a few stories of how VG is like the original EQ in so many ways Im contemplating the game. I want to know if this game has dungeon crawls like the day of  old eq (non instanced) like Lower Guk , Sol B ect .. THOSE are what I miss. Non instanced dungeons, where there was fear of someone falling, trains being started, agroing mobs ect. To get deeper and deeper into a dungeon required a good GROUP. Is this what Vanguard is like?

Vanguard is nothing like EQ1.  People make this comparison because of Brad McQuaid's involvement.  Having played the game, I can think of no other reason anyone would say this.

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Originally posted by sparr
Since I've read a few stories of how VG is like the original EQ in so many ways Im contemplating the game. I want to know if this game has dungeon crawls like the day of  old eq (non instanced) like Lower Guk , Sol B ect .. THOSE are what I miss. Non instanced dungeons, where there was fear of someone falling, trains being started, agroing mobs ect. To get deeper and deeper into a dungeon required a good GROUP. Is this what Vanguard is like?

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IMO VG is a lot like EQ1.

Corpse runs are optional but worth while as the xp debt makes you cry, especially after 40th.

No instancing at all, dungeons are massive, really massive.

Trains are rarer as zones better laid out and larger but they still do happen.

There is a place very much like unrest :)

Dungeon crawling for hours is not uncommon if you want to ;) Sometimes its "when does this dungeon end..."

Levelling isnt as hard as EQ1 but still challenging compared to modern MMORPGs.

I would wait to Update 3 and the free 14 day trial island, should be in the next couple of weeks or so.

Not forgetting contested mobs/bosses, huge lore and group orientated gameplay (althought soloing to 50th is entirely possible)

Originally posted by sparr

Since I've read a few stories of how VG is like the original EQ in so many ways Im contemplating the game. I want to know if this game has dungeon crawls like the day of  old eq (non instanced) like Lower Guk , Sol B ect .. THOSE are what I miss. Non instanced dungeons, where there was fear of someone falling, trains being started, agroing mobs ect. To get deeper and deeper into a dungeon required a good GROUP. Is this what Vanguard is like?

More like EQ1 than anything else out there in my opinion.  However, still a lot different in many ways.  How's that for vague?  In a nutshell, I loved EQ1 and I love VG.

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Originally posted by boojiboy

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Originally posted by sparr

Since I've read a few stories of how VG is like the original EQ in so many ways Im contemplating the game. I want to know if this game has dungeon crawls like the day of  old eq (non instanced) like Lower Guk , Sol B ect .. THOSE are what I miss. Non instanced dungeons, where there was fear of someone falling, trains being started, agroing mobs ect. To get deeper and deeper into a dungeon required a good GROUP. Is this what Vanguard is like?

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More like EQ1 than anything else out there in my opinion.  However, still a lot different in many ways.  How's that for vague?  In a nutshell, I loved EQ1 and I love VG.

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I would agree, I loved EQ1, I love VG.

Comparing the two games is an insult to EQ1.

There are a ton of EQ1 vets playing VG, regionsay is often full of EQ1 nostalgia/jokes. There is zero instancing in VG, so yeh you get the odd train, stumble across other groups deep in dungeons and so forth.

Im not saying VG=EQ1 necessarily, but there are a lot of people playing VG who loved EQ1.

diggity ditto

I think there are many similarities and differences between the two.

Similarities:

pervasive world (no instancing) :

- the game feels more like the world of eq1 in that games such as eq2, gw, wow, ddo, lotro, feel very 'compartmentalized' with their tight landscapes and frequent zoning vs. eq1 and vanguards wide open feel. Vanguard expanded on this, there is basically no zoning, although there is noticable 'chunking', however this does not detract from the 'vastness'. Secondly, adressing a specific point, the dungeons in VG are more similar to the feel of eq1's than anything i've experienced in an mmo since, however there is a major difference with VGs dungeons, i'll address that below

character mechanics:

Imo, playing a toon in vg reminds me a lot of eq1, positioning, timing, interdependence upon group members are all highly refined in both of these games. I know to a certain extent this is true of all mmo's, but examples such as eq2's autoturn, eq2's 'button mash' technique, lotro, eq2 and wow's amazingly independent toons (strong solo toons make weakly linked groups - again my personal opinion, no flaming).

group centered:

in eq1's first year (or two?) there were only two raid targets. Meaning the vast majority of content was centered around the single group. Vanguard still doesn't have its 1 raid target in yet, so it is completely single group based. With no raids, no uber raiding guilds, no out of control high lvl toons running around, there is a distinct similarity in the populations between vanguard now and eq1's first year.

stupid freaking annoying bugs:

again in that first year of eq1, omg - ctd, blue screen of death, lag city, network issues out the wazzoo. Vanguard has an equal if not greater amount of problems. EQ1 had the excuse of the first to try something like a 3d mmorpg; Vanguard just managed their project unwisely.  But in a sick way, the current bugs in Vanguard make me feel nostalgic. It seems another similarity the games share is that the more they fix it, the more i like it.

Discovery:

Remember how insane it was to get any quest info in EQ1 in the first year or two? There was still a feeling that when you got a quest completed, you and only a few others had figured it out. Same in Vanguard. Although the info is getting out there, mostly by searching through threads in fan forums, there still isn't a good website with everything organized. So you pretty much have to figure things out on the fly, by socializing and doing your research. This feels a lot like EQ1 did before allakhazam got rolling.

Differences:

Casual friendly:

Vanguard has borrowed heavily from current mmo's to make it more casual friendly. Although they have a harsher death penalty then most, some liken it to eq1. Well, the fact that you can summon your corpse and take an xp hit, or do a cr and get an xp return (which about 99% of the time will be outside and easy to get to - the other 1% will be deep in dungeons and remind you of eq1 torture) makes it really only slightly more punative than other mmo's.

there are solo quest lines that can take you to lvl 50. Not a smart decision in this game, but a possible one.

Downtime is decreased in Vanguard because while you are lfg, you can craft, harvest, solo quest, diplomacy. Eq1 if youll remember for years had you sitting around doing absolutely nothing while lfg. Then they finally gave us 'gems' .

Crafting, harvesting, solo questing, diplomacy are also worth mentioning in helping to make it casual friendly. There is plenty to do in the game if you only have a limited amount of time.

Dungeon differences:

eq1 = claim a camp, break the spawn, and cycle thru pops until the named comes up. Do this for 2 to 12 hours as needed.

vanguard = crawl from one end to the other, you don't really have time to stop if you wanted to. Most groups i join, and with my standard group, the dungeons generally last anywhere from an hour to maybe 2 hours tops. Then you go turn in your first quests and pick up the second series, then decide if you have time to go back or need to log. Hardcore players will rinse and repeat for hours, but they can be done casually.

Classes:

the class system in Vanguard is great. there is no contest between vg's clerics and eq's. there are balancing issues still to deal with, but hey, they are still monkeying with the balance in eq1. Monks probably need some major work in vg, they aren't nearly as strong as eq1 monks, but other than that I think every class is done better.

There's a bunch more, but its past my bedtime.