General Discussion

Originally posted by Orthedos

 

There are thousands of clinics that claimed to help improve your body with all sorts of treatment from SPA to ocean mud to un-named voodoos.  So what?  Someone trying to make money.

 

An addiction that is caused by chemical and biological dependency (like drugs) is a totally different issue from an addiction that is purely driven by desire.  I know people stealing and selling their bodies in order to buy the latest fashion or that expensive leather bag.  So are all the top boutiques liable as well.  I know people literally eating themselves to death.  Shall we bring the farmers and the restaurants into the bracket?

There is a limit to sensible inclusion.  By some commonly agreed limits we include drugs.  In some countries the regulation on alcoholics are harsher.  But we got to stop somewhere.  We may differ on where the line is drawn, but drawing conclusions on games akin to drugs and alcohol is kinda pushing the limits too far for many of us.

I do not understand how you can hold video game companies responsible for this type of behavior, and yet not hold other industries/people responsible for other types of behavioral addiction.  Maybe one day, we will all have to get warning labels tatooed on our genetalia in order to discourage sex addicts.

There is another issue involved.  The issue of behaviour addiction, irresponsibility or whatever undesirable features are associated with the "problem player", rather than the game.  Fact is, not all gamers are like that, so its a problem more specific to the "problem ones", not all players.

What this means is significant.

If you want to fix the problem focus on the "problem players".  Turning the focus to a much wider scope (the game itself) will only affect the "problem players" indirectly.  Its like banning the use of internet because there are hackers.  This leads to two concerns:

Its an issue of fairness.  What is the purpose of focusing game developers?  Of course, we want them to do something about the game, to modify the game not for the exclusive purpose of improving the game for the normal players, but to modify the game to "help" the "problem players".  This assumes what the companies normally will do will not be the options we need to "help" the "problem players".  So? for the sake of the "problem players" we sacrificed the rest of the player community.  The key consideration would be, is "problem player" a problem serious enough to sacrifice everyone else.  How many problem players there are and what have they done to the world to justify such sweeping action?

Its an issue of effectiveness.  "Problem players" are addicted players.  Trying to tackle them via a game will only induce them to change their behaviour to maintain addiction.  Suspend an account above X hours of online per day till the next day?  The addicted will buy a few more accounts and register in the name of his dog or cat.  You know the story.  Making the grind to max level shorter will only induce him to make more alts and keep grinding 24/7.

Even if we believe in social responsibility, even if we want some measure of gov't control (which I agree in some instances), I do not think the focus of action be placed on developers.  Find the addicted players, if you can, tackle them.

As for gov't controls, some measures make sense.

1. Banning minors from entering internet cafes is not totally stupid, esp after late hours, say 23:00

2. Banning uniformed school kids from entering internet cafes during school hours makes sense, even lunch.  Kids should be getting involved in school life during lunch, not online.

3. Banning offensive games or undesirable games from internet cafes will limited the exposure of people to these games, and we know there are kids in internet cafes.  Some games like sex pokers, games glorifying organised crime or excess brutality, say games that suggest bank robbery or extortion as a means to raise funds to support your avatar.  Come on, I do not want kids even to think of it as an option, till they grow up and realise the risks of getting behind the bar, and that its no glory to rob an 85 year old nanny.  Not to mention virtual sex abuses, that is very dangerous.

4. Registering and regulating internet cafes for normal safety measures like fire exits, smoking control and the like and even mandatory inclusion of rest area and canteens there to provide easy access to rest and food are some meaningful measures.  Noise control, hygiene conditions, ... well maybe I got carried away too far already.

Originally posted by TeflonEddie

 

You have a thoughtful post witha  question thats really self answering.  DOes your mom still need to wipe your butt?  Do you still have to have someone hold your hand in order to walk across the street?  Do you get to tell yourself when you get another piece of candy or does your mom always smack your hand when your reaching fora  cookie?

To all these questions im assuming your an individual that is living on your own since you seem to have pretty nice grammer and spelling.  So im assuming your going to be able to do those things on your own.  One thing im tired about here in teh states is so much regulation that the gov't is passing telling us we cant do things cause they believe we're too stupid (which for some its true) to know that on our own.

My point is their a company that is trying to make money, you pay for their product and play it for hours on end, it is entirely your choice to do so and can walk away whenever you feel bored of it (which for most is pretty quick).  This crap about some people having an addiction for gaming is BS, its called FUN.  Normaly when you find something fun you dont want to stop doing it, but of course people like the ones you hear about "I lost my wife, kids, and job to this game I NEED HELP!"  No you need some damn willpower, those people are just idiots that cant help but be so bored and miserable in their lives that htey need something to havea n alter ego in.

You're missing the point.

 

Addiction is not the issue. Willpower is not the issue. MMO Content Design is the issue.

An example someone made above regarding killing 600 bunnies; this type of content allows both hardcore and casual players to complete it, though of course casual players get there later than the hardcores. Players have the CHOICE to control the pace at which they play the game.

In the example given, (end-game raiding in WoW), the game REQUIRES you to be at the computer for 3-4 hours straight in order to experience the content, and the developers are increasing the amount of content based on this model. WoW does have options for casual PvE gamers, but it's real PvE focus is clearly skewed towards those who are willing to spend those 3-4 hours on a regular basis.

Setting aside the issues of willpower/addiction and considering the question from a game design point of view; would you consider that encounters geared to last a consecutive 4 hours any different than encounters geared to last a consectuve 2 hours?

Players would still have the option to do two of the 2 hour encounters and hence still play the 4 hours they used to, however the MMO developer would be giving the player the CHOICE of cutting their playtime into healthier "blocks".

I seemed to have miss the whole point of the content being the prime issue, but anyhow.  I agree 100%  alot fo these companies are just throwing out what they know works.  How do you think WoW came into affect?  *Cough* DAOC *Cough*.   They just happened to polish it off better, being htat their blizzard.

But most of the games that are coming out are basicaly daoc *WAR has a right to be it cause the company made daoc* but of course to keep a lawsuit from breaking them down a few things rae changed. 

Thats one ofthe reason i look so highly to darkfall cause even just the idea of it breaking from the mold and actaully putting quality time into their game even if they dont beat WoW they know they've made a good game (HOPEFULLY as time will tell).  Instead of these cookie cutters that we're starting to fall into the trend of what the asian market has done for so long *shakes fist menacingly*

Originally posted by Kyntor

 

Originally posted by Orthedos

 

There are thousands of clinics that claimed to help improve your body with all sorts of treatment from SPA to ocean mud to un-named voodoos.  So what?  Someone trying to make money.

 

An addiction that is caused by chemical and biological dependency (like drugs) is a totally different issue from an addiction that is purely driven by desire.  I know people stealing and selling their bodies in order to buy the latest fashion or that expensive leather bag.  So are all the top boutiques liable as well.  I know people literally eating themselves to death.  Shall we bring the farmers and the restaurants into the bracket?

There is a limit to sensible inclusion.  By some commonly agreed limits we include drugs.  In some countries the regulation on alcoholics are harsher.  But we got to stop somewhere.  We may differ on where the line is drawn, but drawing conclusions on games akin to drugs and alcohol is kinda pushing the limits too far for many of us.

Exactly!  Not to mention that behavioral addtiction can manifest itself in a myriad of ways.  There are people who are addicted to shopping, working out, gambling, eating, sex, working, watching TV, reading, dating, and many other things.  Do you plan to regulate these industries/activities too?  If you discourage a behavioral addict from gaming, there is a good chance that he is just going to move on to something else. 

 

I do not understand how you can hold video game companies responsible for this type of behavior, and yet not hold other industries/people responsible for other types of behavioral addiction.  Maybe one day, we will all have to get warning labels tatooed on our genetalia in order to discourage sex addicts.

 

Who isnt addicted to sex?   COME ON WHOSE WITH ME *lifts hand for high five*


SOrry that was a Todd moment!  (Scrubs ftw)

Well you see video games use certain sensory arrays of the eye and the primordial sphyncter of the brain in order to make the user think that their lives are better, and make sthem feel good about themselves whenever they aquire a new item or raise their strength to become the "Big man."  

Yes i said Primordial Sphyncter, and just like this post most addictions other than the kind your body needs in order to sustain itself properly (as seen with drugs and what not) is BULLSH*T

MMO's bear no social responsibility whatsoever.  The responsibility lies with the person using the service. 

Why do people always want to put the responsiblity on someone else?  Everyone needs to take responsibility for their own actions.  Stop looking to the government or companies or some outside agency to be your surrogate parent.  If something is bad for you, limit yourself or cut it out all together.  If you can't, well then be prepared to deal with the consequences for the decisions you make. 

Just so we're clear...

I see the people who stop eating until they die to play MMOs as the same ones who would stick a fork in a socket to "see what happens" at age 40.  They're morons.  They are simply a waste of air.

I'd rather they die from playing too much WoW than short out the electricity in my apartment building with the spoon in a socket thing though, because there's no need for me to suffer.

If you see them as some huge "victim of corporate greed"...well, go save them.  You can spoon feed them mashed peas and rock them to sleep every night if you want, but don't expect me, my tax dollars, or my elected officials to do so please.

Originally posted by Vincenz

Just so we're clear...

 

I see the people who stop eating until they die to play MMOs as the same ones who would stick a fork in a socket to "see what happens" at age 40.  They're morons.  They are simply a waste of air.

 

I'd rather they die from playing too much WoW than short out the electricity in my apartment building with the spoon in a socket thing though, because there's no need for me to suffer.

 

If you see them as some huge "victim of corporate greed"...well, go save them.  You can spoon feed them mashed peas and rock them to sleep every night if you want, but don't expect me, my tax dollars, or my elected officials to do so please.

agreed