General Discussion

Not saying it is my faulth, it is hard to control feelings, but I think I agree with the OP in many ways.

My first real MMO was anarchy online wich I played through beta and then in final, the release was less then stellar as some migth remember so I had to leave shortly after that.

But damn, every bloody second was a wow moment, I was stunned by every part of the game.

The size of it, the environment, the vistas, I felt like bloody Attenborough on galapagos.

Admittedly the character progression system in AO is still unrivalled today in my opinion and I have returned to that game many times, I ended at 210/10 on my last visit.

None the less, today it just do not hold my interest as it once did.

There is no chance, whatever freaking games is released, unless it is a holosuite from star trek, that a game will enthrall me like AO did.

If I am to be honest, had WoW or EQ2 released in their current states back in 2001, I very much doubt I would have played AO at all, or at least not as much.

I will return for the graphic update though, for the umptenth time.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

 

Originally posted by eccoton

Originally posted by altairzq

It's both really.

You are right it is a little of both but I was trying to make a specific point that many seem not to realize. Some many of the games we remember that were so great, if you really think about it were not perfect games. It was our experiences that drove that feeling more then the game itself.

 

I dig this point. EQ is viewed so favorably because it is the first 3D mmorpg. I still remember the first time I fired up the beta and I go "wow".

In reality, WOW is a much much better game but we have seen lots of the elements done before.

This is not the case, EQ stands out because it created a world where you "lived". It was very immersive, while WOW it's just a game, a great game, but nothing compared to what EQ was.

Just to give you an example, in EQ every item had a certain weight, and you walked or ran slower depending on how much items you were carrying and your race. You also took more or less damage from falling depending on that weight and your race (real damage, not like in WOW). So for instance if you where too much encumbered you asked for help from other players that could carry your stuff (trust and help, that's what makes a good community). This is just a very simple example. There were dozens of features that made you feel like that was a live world you were in.

By the way, the only stackable items where the ones that made sense, like worms to fish, not the absurdity we see now in MMOGS.

Weapons also had weight and you got tired of swinging a sword for instance, depending on your stamina. And stamina depended on race, so for instance an Ogre could use heavier weapons (Which didn't scale to the size of the wearer, so a dagger in an Ogre looked like a toothpick). That makes sense. How is Wow better at that? Wow makes no sense at all. It's just a game that's fun to play, that's all. EQ was Epic. lol

EQ was my first kiss, and it was because the original players were kind, cheerful, and actually fun to play with.  It was a total world but the original players were a whole class to themselves.

And my analysis of that first kiss is based on positive grouping experiences.  When you meet new people, made new friends and everyone had a blast together.  The concept of "pay it forward" was actually revered in the original EQ, now it stands as a joke.  People actually took the time to explain how the game mechanics worked, helped you to be a better player, and refuse to play the ridicule game.

Soon though EQ changed when the mass market of beggers and whiners flooded in.   Myabe I am wrong but gaming now has a whole generation of those that demand and want their lewts NOW all while screaming >you suxxor".  Personally I think what we want is that original gaming experience of fun, friendship, and mutual discovery.  Sadly I think it is all gone though with the new demanding gamers.

Originally posted by eccoton

I see dozens of threads in all the different forums here at mmorpg.com about the lack of good games. I see "why are there not any good games anymore?", "What has happened to the games?", "This is all WoW's fault", "This is SOE fault". Over and over I see these types of posts. So many write about how they are waiting for that perfect game to remove all the hurt and boredom of the current list of crappy MMO's. Everyone wants a game like that special one they use to play.

There are parts of EverQuest that I will never experience in another MMORPG.  I agree with you in this respect.  On the other hand, there were far too many flaws within EverQuest that still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. 

I personally think MMORPGs are worse for having EverQuest in their ranks.  Although, like I said before, I do think that EQ had an ability to immerse its player base in a way I have yet to experience again.

I got news for you there are a lot of great games out there. The lack of passion for current mmos here by so many is your fault not the games. What has really happened is the love affair for mmos is stale for many. This has very little to do with the games themselves but with the fact they simply are not a new experience for you anymore. Remember at about 10 years old mmos are a relatively new form of entertainment. Think about it. Think back to the games you really loved. Was it the game, or was it the fact the whole experience of mmos was new and exciting for you? I believe for most it was the latter.

This is where we start to drift apart.  I am fairly sure, if things are the same way they were when I took a hiatus from this site, that most people will bitch about any game regardless of how good it is.  MMORPG players, in my experience, are always looking over the horizon for the next big thing.  This is part of human nature, I suppose.  The fact of the matter is, players will always become burned out on MMORPGs.  No game has infinite replay value, even if new content is released every few months.  Players simply cannot put up with the same system for too long without becoming bored.

Therefore, players find flaws in great games.  Even the original Mario Bros games have flaws if you play them for days at a time.

For me it was pre-nge SWG. I played other mmos before but it was SWG that put it all together for me and kept me up all night playing. The game was good but it was not great however it was the freshness of that sandbox experience that grabbed me and did not let go until NGE. As an older gamers I realize while there will still be great mmos coming out I will never have that same passion I did back then, no matter how good the game will be. This feeling is a bit depressing but that is really how life is. Your first great experience is what we all strive to relive but that rarely ever happens. Our first loves years latter seem prettier and better then they were. Time has that effect on us. If you really think about it, was that first great mmo really that great or was it the fact you got really hooked for the first time?

While I understand what you're getting at here, I think the problem is MMOs in general.  The shift from sandbox to linear game play was just as brutal as it was successful.  That's a lethal combination for those of us who enjoyed a mixture of imagination with our gaming experience.  Pre-NGE SWG will never occur with a major IP, ever.  No company is willing to put themselves out there.  This is especially true since SWG has become a less-than-stellar game with no real successes.

I really do think that Pre-NGE SWG was great.  I think the hook it sunk into you was not just the hook of a new genre, but one of a great game.

I do not present this idea to depress anyone but to point out there are indeed great games out there and you do not need to wait for some magic mystery game that will make it all ok again. That will never happen. My advice is embrace the current games but realize you are older and more experienced so how you react to the game will be different. I may never get the same feeling I had from that first kiss many years ago but the sex sure is better now then back then because I am more epxerienced. Use your exeperience over the years in mmos to explore them for what they are not what you remember them to be. Like the old song from the 60s "Love the one you're  with"

 To be perfectly honest, it is hard to explain exactly why players bitch and moan about the current allotment of MMOs.  For other genres, games are plentiful.  If one game disappoints, players have many to turn to that are both interesting and well made.  For MMORPGs, sadly, a failure in the genre is a very hard blow to the stomach for the genre and players.

Think about Shadowbane.  For a lot of gamers (especially old UO PVPers), Shadowbane was going to be the be all end all of MMORPGs.  When it was released, Shadowbane was a totally buggy flop.  Players could hardly grind mobs, let alone PvP.  Now the game is free-to-play and mostly empty.

I think from failure like this, MMORPG players develop a sense of the impending awesome.  Studios and PR people are amazing at stirring up fervor over a new game.  Just look at WAR!  The PR for that games even had me wetting my pants for a while.

 

In short, I think the fault is the size of the genre versus the number of failures we have experiences as gamers.  This is also mixed with the speed at which players eat up content.  Eventually with these three things working together, every player will have something to bitch about.