Age of Conan

So all that happens is a slight loss of stats? Very WoWish isn't it? Do we need another carebear game?

Death penalty just leads to a large base of angered players, losing them a net of subscribers.  Most games take a hit in subscribers when they realize there is a death penalty or long leveling.  The casual player base will just about always win theres a lot more of them than hardcore who wants difficulty, they need the ease to get to top level.

We are a free world. You can always penalize yourself. Toss away coin, destroy some items, delete your chars. Go ahead, feel free to penalize you as ever you wish.

Originally posted by Arachneus1

Death penalty just leads to a large base of angered players, losing them a net of subscribers.  Most games take a hit in subscribers when they realize there is a death penalty or long leveling.  The casual player base will just about always win theres a lot more of them than hardcore who wants difficulty, they need the ease to get to top level.

If someone leaves because of a death penalty instead of it making them try to be cautious and play better then they are pathetic and should not be catered to.

Originally posted by Elikal

We are a free world. You can always penalize yourself. Toss away coin, destroy some items, delete your chars. Go ahead, feel free to penalize you as ever you wish.

But I play smart , have skills,and therefore don't die often. Having a death penalty is about making the other guy get penalized for playing stupidly. I want to be able to shine compared to others. How do I do that without a death penalty? Do I get extra rewards for not dying compared to others who do die often? There needs to be a way to differentiate skilled and smart players versus unskilled and dumb players.

Are we talking solo or group here? For example, what if you die BECAUSE of someone else? Someone forgots to heal you, someone does this and that that is wrong in a group and BAM you die...

I dont play mmos because of some death penalty (whatever it is), and to "prove" myself to others im better in some kind of a "race"... i play them because i want to explore, achieve, craft, pvp and do all the things i want to!

Originally posted by RedwoodSap

So all that happens is a slight loss of stats? Very WoWish isn't it? Do we need another carebear game?

Its an open pvp game with no set factions. I could group with you then kill you when your health is low or if you did something stupid.

Blood Money may possibly be scrapped because we have heard very little about it. It was mentioned very early that they wanted a program that supported player skill for pvp rewards over time invested. Blood Money was their solution.

Every character would start with X amount of Blood money. When they die the player killing them can loot a % of that Blood Money. After that the character who won the fight and looted would have more blood money and thus would be worth more when you kill him.

Characters with a good kill to death ratio and many kills would be the ones on the top of the ladder, not simply the ones who killed the most or were present during the most fights.

edit: The only real discouragement to bad players is constantly being ganked and having very slow progression.

Originally posted by RedwoodSap

Originally posted by Elikal

We are a free world. You can always penalize yourself. Toss away coin, destroy some items, delete your chars. Go ahead, feel free to penalize you as ever you wish.

But I play smart , have skills,and therefore don't die often. Having a death penalty is about making the other guy get penalized for playing stupidly. I want to be able to shine compared to others. How do I do that without a death penalty? Do I get extra rewards for not dying compared to others who do die often? There needs to be a way to differentiate skilled and smart players versus unskilled and dumb players.

And if a player is casual, or he has a careless moment he is stupid?

Originally posted by brutotal

 

Originally posted by RedwoodSap

So all that happens is a slight loss of stats? Very WoWish isn't it? Do we need another carebear game?

Its an open pvp game with no set factions. I could group with you then kill you when your health is low or if you did something stupid.

 

 

Blood Money may possibly be scrapped because we have heard very little about it. It was mentioned very early that they wanted a program that supported player skill for pvp rewards over time invested. Blood Money was their solution.

Every character would start with X amount of Blood money. When they die the player killing them can loot a % of that Blood Money. After that the character who won the fight and looted would have more blood money and thus would be worth more when you kill him.

Characters with a good kill to death ratio and many kills would be the ones on the top of the ladder, not simply the ones who killed the most or were present during the most fights.

 

edit: The only real discouragement to bad players is constantly being ganked and having very slow progression.

Isn't PvP consensual though, by being limited to certain zones? If so you always expect to be attacked by anyone in a open PvP environment like that. There isn't any player looting either so again, no death penalty.

Death penalty is something I personally could care less about...

My view was the OP pretty much described the death penalty in DAoC.  I sure wasn't thinking about "WoW" in that description.  Unless you think that having "ress sickness" for a few minutes is some harsh penalty.. since its usually gone by the time you get back to the fight.

Now UO... early on .. had a death penalty. 

Die to a player.. your stuff got looted.

Die to a mob... ya you guessed it .. the mob took your stuff.

I always thought that was great.  You actually had the chance to get your stuff back by killing the player or the mob that took it.  And... sometimes when I killed a mob I got bonus loot.

So UO as a skill based game could be pretty harsh.

EQ1 early on was fairly harsh XP penalty.

I never played AC1... AO used the insurance system.  If you forgot to insure you lost all the XP you made since your last insured date.  I forget if you automaticly insured when you level'd.. its been to many years.

DAoC to me was the first game I played where the penalty wasn't that bad.  They had the grave system and if you got to your grave you got a large chunk of the XP back.  So you didn't have to hope to find a Cleric with that "good" ress (that's an EQ1 reference for those that didn't play it).

In RvR you didn't lose XP just had a death effect.  But back then by the time the "porters" walked onto the pad... the second time becuase you forgot to put on your necklace... The effect was gone.

Anyway... I just don't see how the OP.. alludes to WoW as somehow being where this lack of penalty came from.

The only other thing I have to say about this is..

A company is going to do what they think will bring in the numbers needed to...

1) Make a profit in a certain period of time

2) Cover the IP license fee (in the case of AoC/WAR or any 3rd party IP)

3) High enough numbers to retain a long term profit

If making the game a certain way... is predicted to bring in less numbers than needed for the above.  Its going to be changed no matter who the developer is.

I don't know of any company out there.. that is going to take a financial bath just to put out a certain type of game.

Err wait... SOE has done that.. never mind.

Let me reword that.. I don't know any company that can't hide behind Sony Pictures profits.. that is going to purposely lose money on a game. (that's supposed to be somewhat funny.. but I know sarcasm isn't funny to most it seems).

So if you want a harsher game... you will probably want to look at self owned IP's.. just the license costs of a 3rd party IP.. is going to dictate a certain minimum subscriber base.  Which in the end... really means having to design a game a certain way.  Even if its not what your "vision" was.