General Discussion

I dont like people; this is why I cant make friends in real life; this is why i play video games and also why i dont make "friends" in video games.

Infact i hate people. I express my hatred for them by pwning them in pvp and the charactor advancment systems in mmo's make it easyer to consistantly pwn people.

I resent you and your sucess and I want to smear poop in your face. This why I play multiplayer games by myself.

and no, im not being ironic, this is how i actualy feel. I make up the majoity of the people in your moronic little universe.

Much?

When haven't MMORPGs been anything other than themed chat rooms?

It's not so much the fact that players can quest and craft solo as it's the complete lack of social options outside of the main game concept. Seriously, why does the multiplayer aspect have to involve killing something? Why can't there be an option for a player to run their own tavern or buy everyone a round of drinks in a tavern? Why can't people just collect and trade in-game objects that have no other function than just being rare? custom dance animations? Composing music? printing on clothes? No?...

It's really depressing to see threads like this and be confronted by the complete lack of creativity on the part of the community. Here's a thought: Maybe it's not the developer's fault for the genre getting stale.

As far as this thread goes i think EVE online is as close to perfect as it might get. You dont HAVE to group. You dont HAVE to interact at all. But in real life strength comes in numbers, strength comes from cooperation. You dont have to work with anyone. I think it comes down to a dichotomey between those who look to fantasy to escape reality and feel significant and those looking for an easily  adopted alternate reality to explore the very real power struggles inherent  in the human condition....

...or maby we just want to kill things.....

I told those mother #%$^% i aint never scared! i aint Nevr scared! I aint never scared!!

This is the number one reason I could not play WoW. The grouping game from 1-59 absolutely sucks, and is pretty much pointless.

Bring back the good grouping games. That's really all I like to do in an MMORPG. Nothing wrong with solo games like WoW (pre-Raid level) and obviously lots of people like that sort of gameplay, but it's not for me.

A truly multiplayer game where it's all or nothing would be amazing, but the problem is that outside factors affect how such a game would work. For instance, grouping could be a living nightmare unless everyone is one one server and there are millions of subscribers. Over time, however, there will be less new players and more veterans, making it hard for new players to find groups. I'd definitely play a game where one HAS to group, but only if finding that group isn't hell on Earth and if all classes (once again if there are any) are in high demand.

Originally posted by ladyattis

That sums up my sentiment exactly. I like questing, sure, but where's the fracking tavern? Or why can't I open my own? How about a bounty board on materials from animals (for those that like farming mobs anyways) that I pay a premium for some and bulk for others? Basically, where can I exert my influence on the game world in major and minor ways? If there is none, why make it a multiplayer monthly fee game? Why not just tailor it up as the next Mass Effect and put it up on Steam for me to buy for 45USD? I guess I won't get a handle on these developers and their ideas considering I'm my own wouldbe developer. *shrugs* :)

-- Brede

I agree with you wholeheartedly on this point Ladyattis.  There is such a lack of imagination, and creativity in a lot of current MMO's, and the frustrating thing is that the potential for some really amazing games is out there.

Most of the posts on this thread have done a good and concise job, of answering your original question, and so there is not much else I can add, but for what it's worth, here's my tuppence worth.

When everything is boiled down, I think that the primary motive for software companies is money.  Pure and simple.  At the end of the day, the big-wigs at all these companies could not really care how innovative their product is, as long as they are getting the cash.  What has this got to do with the original question about solo-ing? 

Well, ever since WoW became such a commercial success, a lot of software houses decided to jump on the MMORPG band-wagon.  However, instead of trying to take chances, and incorporate new aspects to these games, they figure they can use the basic formula and 'doll up' their own take on the concept.  The way they see it; ' if it ain't broken, don't fix it.'   Which is a crying shame, as ultimately the genre could stagnate if we just get the same ideas, over and over again.

Solo-play will probably become more and more available, so that a game can be viewed as mainstream, and friendly to the masses.  There is no way you will ever get a game as demanding as, say, Lineage 2, to have the subscription numbers as WoW.  The average punter wants to be able to access all that a game offers, with the minimum of effort.

I personally would like to see a balance. I do solo a lot, and a lot of MMO's are very unfriendly when it comes to new players, which makes finding a group difficult. To counter that, I often join a guild, which in my opinion is a much better way to find group members than just PUG's. So, ideally, I would like to have the choice, as some nights I may be in the mood to form a group, and others just play my own game. If Dev's can provide a fair quantity of both in these games, then I'd be happy, even more so if they experimented with the genre, and provided us with more than just your bog-standard, seek and destroy-type quests.

I'd agree with much of whats been said (and I'm a chronic soloer).  The issue isn't the lack of forced grouping, it's:

1)  The lack of a "virtual world"

2)  The extremely narrow scope of MMO's

There's no real community, because there doesn't need to be one.  You're just grinding/questing you're way to the top, so you can get in a guild and participate in some repetitive, pointless endgame.  Most of your money comes from questing, most of you're gear comes from questing, and most of your xp comes from questing.  Who the hell needs a community?  This is basically a linear, single player RPG, with a mutiplayer option.

Originally posted by ladyattis

I pose this question in light of my own conclusions about the majority of 'modern' MMOs, where the entire set of 'content' that one can play is fashioned to be from the perspective of a single player as opposed to multiple players. Whether we're talking about Tabula Rasa or talking about Vanguard, or Everquest 2 or even World of Warcraft. Each one of these MMOs can be effectively played solo with no need to even have the chat window open save for to bicker with others if one so chooses. This observation makes me wonder where MMO developers went wrong, by that I mean that the entire point of MMOs is the MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER aspect of the 'genre' (I use this loosely), where you're stuck with strangers and suppose to cooperate in some function to win out over extraordinary odds. Yet, this doesn't pan out like it anymore. I doubt it has anything to do with the playerbases getting older otherwise people would become total shut-ins in real life, so I'm puzzled by this development. Is it because it makes development easier for the companies? Or is it because they're trying to appeal to the largest segments of the market? I have my own ideas on it, but I rather see what you all have to say.

-- Brede

Neither  Vanguard or EQ2 does support solo playing. Those games alow you to level your character but you will not find any decent loot in those games if you play solo.

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Originally posted by Vidir
Neither Vanguard or EQ2 does support solo playing. Those games alow you to level your character but you will not find any decent loot in those games if you play solo.

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The last time I played EQ2, there was tons of solo content. The old content is still group focused along with the raiding content, but there's loads of single/solo quest lines anyone can engage in. More than enough to level and get equipment well enough to tackle most group content as well (save for raids of course). For Vanguard, I never had issue leveling at all in a solo manner, save for dungeons, which did get sticky, but nothing like what use to be the norm for say UO in the old days or AC1 (try to tackle a swarm of lugians without buffs regardless of weapon you should choose, and you'll die *fast* from their all too often landing crits...). So, no, my examples stand pretty well on their own just by examining solo leveling guides offered for both games by players, which know their classes and the current content up to a point (it depends on whether the guide has been updated to the most recent content patches or not...). Ultimately, soloplay in these games is possible and quite easy compared to older games and their previous game rules.

-- Brede