General Discussion

Originally posted by Rollotamasi

This is why out of all the MMO's I have played EVE is my favorite.  Land (Space) control means that there is always something to do and the fact that you can pretty much never max out you character means you always get to see improvement. 

Didn't you used to play SWG? I've seen your name before.

PvP would never be the solution for someone as me.

I am a coop player.  I don't want to RvR, I don't want to PvP, I don't want to Raid.  I want to group.

I understand that my precious unlimited levels which I will always crave for is possibly not for everyone, but you either have to let's me go happy (maxed), or to give in more of what I want...more levels...always more...always more.  More than more.

You won't make me enjoy PvP, RvR or Raiding suddenly.  I play for GROUPING.  I want MORE grouping, not less.  Any try to replace grouping with something else will invariably fails and possibly remove 1 sold box.  Other players which joins because they enjoy the grouping, when the groupers are gone and they are alone, they find it boring, the game isn't anymore what it was, they rant about the old time.  They miss the groupers.

I understand some players think differently and have different goals/purpose, but if you shaft me for them, the end's result is that I won't be playing the game.  Even if initially the game offered all I want (levels & stuff).

Best groupers have to be groupers.  No compromises.  Make it unlimited levels, or make us reach the cap and cancel sub until next expansion, but don't force us in non-grouping gameplay.  Groupers want to group, not to RvR/PvP/Raid.  Everyone would find it funny to see Anofalye (Level 95323292323494) in the last zone, but it thousand instance version with stuff higher level...and they could propose me whatever they want, I could join them in the level 5 zone, or refuse them, but I would be there enjoying the game.  Outside of this instanced zone maybe the cap is harsh and I am no better than any level 50, or maybe I am better, I actually cares very little, as long as I can progress more in the unlimited levels zones and that I can reach the ultimate best with old zones so I can still find it fun to group there, could be or not a cap.

I can only hope that EVE is all that everyone is saying it is, I intend on beginning my adventures in the vast reaches of space next week.  Wish me luck, and if I'm not back in five minutes...  that will be a good thing. =)

Originally posted by tillamook

Originally posted by Rollotamasi

This is why out of all the MMO's I have played EVE is my favorite.  Land (Space) control means that there is always something to do and the fact that you can pretty much never max out you character means you always get to see improvement. 

Didn't you used to play SWG? I've seen your name before.

Just the trial.

I don't think anyone is saying we should eliminate grouping, I remember the old days of grouping in EQ, sitting around for hours in the Dreadlands (I was a cleric, so all I got to do was sit and watch everyone's health).  In those days you not only had to know how to play your character well, but be able to participate in entertaining conversation at the same time.  It was more about having fun and enjoying the company, and yes, I certainly enjoyed that and miss it now.  Whenever I play a game now, I find myself deterred from even wanting to group by  players that seem to only get in a group or guild in order to beg, steal and abuse those around them.  So I stop grouping, which ruins the whole point of the game.  In other words, I understand the desire for grouping, I just worry that this newer breed of 'gimme' players is well on their way to killing the idea and think it might be a good idea to implement other things as well.  We certainly shouldn't remove the good aspects of a game, to be replaced by others.  There have got to be ways to add on, not replace.  Ah well, now I'm dreaming again.  The thing to keep in mind is that it's not always the devs who are responsible for any lack in game content, but the groups funding the creation of the game as they will tend to push for release in order to make good on their investment.

Originally posted by Zindaihas

Let's face it, we play MMOs for the sense of adventure and excitement they bring to our lives, even though it's only imaginary adventure.  The reason we explore, fight and advance is because we want to see what's out there.  Granted we also want to make our character the biggest, baddest guy on the block, but we do that so we can get to tougher places so we can do even more adventuring.

This thought came to me when I read glord's post on making a game that will last a lifetime.  Although that's an impossible and impractical goal, one thing I want from an MMO is a way to keep having fun after you've advanced your character as far as you can and dressed him in the best gear money can buy.  Maybe not forever, but at least for a few months.

There has been many posts about the "endgame" and I guess this is another one.  Anyone have any good ideas about what devs can do to allow you to keep having fun after you've advanced and acquired everything or does boredom become inevitable at that point?

I dont know who invented the *¤#"¤* endgame systems for MMOs. So i say NO.

Thre shouldent be more endgame in a MMO then it should be in real life. Everytime they force you to do something in a MMO they have lost much of the meaning. It more and more becomes a singleplayers game.

I mean, what was the "endgame" in the Vietnam war?, or the "endgame" in the cold  war?? There is no such thing.  Please take it away in the future.

Originally posted by daarco

 

Originally posted by Zindaihas

Let's face it, we play MMOs for the sense of adventure and excitement they bring to our lives, even though it's only imaginary adventure.  The reason we explore, fight and advance is because we want to see what's out there.  Granted we also want to make our character the biggest, baddest guy on the block, but we do that so we can get to tougher places so we can do even more adventuring.

This thought came to me when I read glord's post on making a game that will last a lifetime.  Although that's an impossible and impractical goal, one thing I want from an MMO is a way to keep having fun after you've advanced your character as far as you can and dressed him in the best gear money can buy.  Maybe not forever, but at least for a few months.

There has been many posts about the "endgame" and I guess this is another one.  Anyone have any good ideas about what devs can do to allow you to keep having fun after you've advanced and acquired everything or does boredom become inevitable at that point?

 

I dont know who invented the *¤#"¤* endgame systems for MMOs. So i say NO.

Thre shouldent be more endgame in a MMO then it should be in real life. Everytime they force you to do something in a MMO they have lost much of the meaning. It more and more becomes a singleplayers game.

I mean, what was the "endgame" in the Vietnam war?, or the "endgame" in the cold  war?? There is no such thing.  Please take it away in the future.

I believe a better question should be: What is the "endgame" in Facebook? Or Youtube? I see a true next-gen MMORPG as a service or rather a virtual place that you call your own instead of something that you play so you can "beat the game". Imo the concept of "endgame" is alien to online gaming...

Are there "endgames" in online FPSs? Is there an "endgame" in EVE online? You can have a persistent and meaningful online social game without the need to sell the snake oil of an "endgame" to achievers. Give 'em enough toys and leeway to create their own "endgames" and that's pretty much it.

/additon:

Another area I see future MMORPGs improving is advancement through alternative playing modes.. Here's where EVE is the most progressive as well.. You don't like cutthroat PvP? Fine, go mine and listen to your mp3 while chatting with other old fogies about sci-fi. Don't like to play with others? Gank newbs as a psycho pirate. 3D gfx making you dizzy? Play it as a political/trading simulation right from your browser. This way the game grows beyond being just a "game" and transforms into a shared world that can be approached from many angles - in short, it turns into a hobby.

When I read a thread like this, it really hits home one important truth.

I like content.  I like to read.  I like to be told a story.  Based on the success of content-driven games, I am not alone in this.

This isn't such a big epiphany, but the other side of the coin is something I have trouble remembering:  sandbox people do not like content.  They do not like to read.  They don't generally care about the lore, the background, or the ongoing story of a game.  They want to make their own story, and they feel that being a part of the game's story is somehow robbing them of the right to make decisions for themselves.

Really, honestly, the two playstyles don't mix well.  They don't even belong in the same game.

I can't imagine enjoying a sandbox game, and most sandboxers can't believe I like a game as "linear" as WoW.  Yes, those are irony quotes, because I don't feel WoW is linear at all.  I have about six characters at the moment, and each of them has taken a very different path in life.  True, there is a bit of overlap in terms of content they've experienced, but not as much as some might think.

Anyway, yes, those characters will eventually hit 70, and 80 after that.  And then maybe I'll move on to some of the classes I haven't bothered with.  And after that, maybe I'll switch to Horde and do it all again.  And maybe one day I will have seen everything there is to see and Blizzard will not have another expansion ready fast enough.

But you know what?  I've never held any illusions that this game would last forever.  I don't think it's healthy.  I don't think anyone should expect to be able to pick one game and play it for the rest of his/her life.

I know I came late to the WoW party, and I know there are some hardcore players out there (who I suspect do not have jobs or social lives) who have already completed this cycle of experiencing the entire game and have gotten bored.  That's a shame, but maybe it's for the best.  It can only be a good thing if they find something else to do for a while.

But I have a job and a social life, and I imagine most of the people playing games these days do too.  To fully absorb a so-called "linear" game takes a lot of time, and most of us don't get sick of the "grind" because we don't see content as an obstacle.  We see it as THE REASON we play the game in the first place.

So I'd say the "linear," level-based approach to game design isn't flawed at all.  Obviously it's not flawed, or the market would look very different.

And for me, the endgame is the least attractive part of any MMO.  I don't mind starting a new character at all, but the idea of logging in a character who is at max level makes me sleepy.

I agree entirely with what Markoraos said.