All Posts by openedge1

This comparison might have some slight relevance if it wasn't for the fact that LoTRO was already out and doing well financially when Time Warner invested in it . . .

I am not sure I understand your connotation here. I am crazy because I believe- an investor would like a say in the product they have invested in? I would definitely beg to differ.

You would be crazy to think a conglomerate as big as Time Warner (notorirous for having their say in many things...like for example throttling their Internet users bandwidth in P2P applications) would not want to say "Hey look at that company and their MMO, and how well it is doing. I notice it has this feature that YOU do not...why not implement that"

Turbine WILL change. And it could be for the better, but to blatantly think the investor is not going to try and force their hand is ludicrous.

Do not forget. Out of this, the below 400k play on a daily basis...

Sorry....but, I mean...really, how many are REAL players.

We all know the numbers mean something though..

400k people had 6 month scrips that do not end until December. These were the people who LOVED Tortage.

Enuff said

Originally posted by solareus

Originally posted by Bedlem3342

This is a picture of my character outside Bree on a sunny morning. Trust me its currently my desktop background all clear and i am proud.

 

Awesome Character, these are nmy favorite character models of any mmorpg. The dx10 makes them just that much mor awesome

 

Of course...understanding that DX 10 does nothing for the character models per se. As I had previously linked, the models are not affected, but landscapes are.

Originally posted by d10sfan

One thing that gets me about people saying that theyre xfire numbers and nobody uses xfire is this:

Unless all the people that are showing a decline in hours on the xfire game list on Age of Conan stopped using Xfire, then the graph on their site shows a decline in in people playing Age Of Conan in at least the Xfire community.  I know that xfire is not a major portion of the gaming population but going from #4 on the hour list to #20 in 2 months is a pretty drastic change.

The only other games to have such a drastic drop like that was LOTRO, EQ2 and Vanguard...with Vanguard showing the largest drop of all games to have at least been near the top of the chart.

LOTRO has evened off, EQ2 has bottomed out, and Vanguard...well...ouch

I believe we know which direction AoC is headed.

Originally posted by jarish

Originally posted by openedge1

Alot of people (including me) think that PvMP is alot of fun and they will keep supporting it for the players (and not beacuse of what investors mite think)

 

Just like these guys did not listen to their investors, and released the product the "people" wanted.

Vanguard

Tabula Rasa

Age Of Conan

Hellgate:London

To think investors have no say? I think you may want to wake up on that one.

I agree the game should stay PvE, but PvE only entertains so long. People usually need more of a challenge than an AI can provide. Unless Turbine can keep the "live" event system rolling, and invest time into unique quest lines and avoid the kill 10 x trap, then it may hold up.

For now, I still think all eyes are on WAR. It's success or failure will change the market drastically.

 

Time-warner must think that Turbine is doing a pretty good job if they are willing to give them 40 million in today's economic situation.

Never said they did not. Just like Microsoft thought Sigil had an awesome idea in Vanguard. But, then what happened...they did not like the direction Sigil was going, and then took that funding away.

See how that works?

Originally posted by jarish

Look, no one will have a large share of the market anymore, atleast not for a few years after WoW starts to die off. Large market share right now is 5%.

Or say a company like NCSoft and Guild Wars which has a 16% share actually.

Tobold discusses market shares

"But another meter shows that in total WoW makes 63% of all Amazon MMO sales, followed by Guild Wars with 16%, and everything else including LotRO, Age of Conan, and WAR at 5% or less."

But, as I have stated before, WAR is the game to watch starting next month. This may be the game to pull the market share from WoW...then we will have some answers on what people really want in their game.

Out of the whole conversation, this happened to be my favorite part

I guess we get the idea of who the population is.

Originally posted by bverji

Originally posted by openedge1

Alot of people (including me) think that PvMP is alot of fun and they will keep supporting it for the players (and not beacuse of what investors mite think)

 

To think investors have no say? I think you may want to wake up on that one.

 

That actually depends on the investment structure.  Investors can have anywhere from almost total command to none, depending on how much of the purse strings they control and how the investment capital is set up.

I don't know that much about Turbine, but they are established enough that I would imagine that their investors are through a corporate structure, which would give them very little power (as their money would already be allocated and turbine has no real reason to appease them).

Agreed

A good article is located here

Turbine and Investors

They are quick to point out that "They" (meaning Turbine) have control of what they offer.

My only worry is Time Warner being one of the investors is the scariest share holder. There is no telling how they may wish to move forward in regards to what Turbine does, and may pull the "We will take our money elsewhere is you don't do this" for example.

But, it is all speculation. That is what is fun is to discuss ...this upcoming future. Who knows.

Will be good to see how they progress with new cash...

I for one enjoy DDO, it just needs some work. And LOTRO can be great...depending on future changes.

Alot of people (including me) think that PvMP is alot of fun and they will keep supporting it for the players (and not beacuse of what investors mite think)

Just like these guys did not listen to their investors, and released the product the "people" wanted.

Vanguard

Tabula Rasa

Age Of Conan

Hellgate:London

To think investors have no say? I think you may want to wake up on that one.

I agree the game should stay PvE, but PvE only entertains so long. People usually need more of a challenge than an AI can provide. Unless Turbine can keep the "live" event system rolling, and invest time into unique quest lines and avoid the kill 10 x trap, then it may hold up.

For now, I still think all eyes are on WAR. It's success or failure will change the market drastically.

Originally posted by solareus

 

   

A Middle Earth Elf , simply gorgeous. Pure as the flower in her hair, she stands glowing in the radiance of hope.

You do realize her hands are malformed...yes? Look at how large they are.

This is a major issue as well, proportions are not right at all.

Can we tell what is not looking right here? The "set" seems to be displayed on some invisible shelf. This then makes that "set" incorrectly displayed. (lets call that set...TaTas)

Also, don't mention how this particular cloak makes the neck look like it is cut off (lol)

And armor is not a "body" suit. It should fit, but have ridges or lines, etc. Not form fit as above.

No..I feel the models have a way to go.

Originally posted by logicbox9

Originally posted by solareus 

Also want to hint on player models ... Function over form, ever hear the term. funcom sure as hell has not. The biggest challenge is creating a mpvp system that can handle massive amounts of people at the same time, if you add all kinds of little extras like AoC has, you will not be able to scale those down without making the characters look like complete poop. I bet WoW can handle over 1000 people in one area, simply because of the lack of definition in the models.

Turbine has done an amazing job for function  and balancing a look that is to the specifics of the lore, and we can take these models in monster play and not suffer a great deal of loss when toning down the graphics for optimal mpvp play.

When reaching some of the more epic parts of the trilogy like Helms Deep it will be imperative that Turbine is 100% confident with the models they have and in scaling the battle sizes for player amount as well as monster player amount. This is another reason for no height configuration in the character creation, it is just one less anomaly that will interfere with their creations.

 

 I will eat a can of dog food the day AoC can have 200vs 200 players in a siege with there current models, it Will never happen.

 

So, are you saying LoTRO has shitty models because of PvMP? Wow, that's weird... here I thought Turbine focused on PvE. Kind of sucks for the majority of the players to have to put up with mentally challenged looking models wearing reskinned body suits that they call armor and having to tuck in their junk because of a few PvMP players.

 

Helm's Deep is a bad example, because you have no idea how Turbine will poorly represent it. It could just turn out to be a single-player instance, or some kind of lame-ass session play.

 

Also, the reason you will never see 200 vs 200 battles in AoC is because it's dead... they probably don't even have 200 people playing on one server.

Lets look at Guild Wars as an example of character models who did not have to give up animation styles or visual quality for PvP. With collision detection as well (which LOTRO does not have), this game shows that the models do not have to be compromised for good PvP. and as well, tons of characters can be on screen at once with little to no lag (look at Alliance battles)

And like you said, and everyone else here says...LOTRO is PvE. Why create models for something that Turbine "supposedly" does not want. Makes no sense.

Originally posted by jarish

I do not want LOTRO to become a PVP game. It is nice to PVMP as a side game for people to enjoy. But LOTRO was made to be PVE centric and that is what it is. Take it or leave it. People like it for that and reason and others don't. Turbine knows PVP is a very popular game mechanic, but I think if they were worried about that and chasing it to become fantasy MMO #300 they would have done that already. I think the developers at Turbine really LOVE the game they have created and don't want to make it something it is not intended to be. I know you probably don't believe me, but even if they knew they could get twice as many people if they added a dark faction they wouldn't do it. That is not the kind of game they want to play or the one they want to make.

I agree that Turbine was not interested in this type of structure. PvE was their main concern. They also have not been successful when it comes to PvP (DDO had a failed implementation after the fact)

But, things have changed for Turbine. They have investors now, and as we have seen, investors (i.e: the people who hold the money) make all the difference...

Examples: Vanguard, Tabula Rasa, AoC

If investors think more money is out there based on a mechanic, they will use it against Turbine to make them change. I guarantee all eyes are on WAR at this point.

As we can also see, they are already enhancing PvMP for MoM as noted by another poster.

Hmmm..

. (yes, that was Openedge1. We all know him, and his credibility on these boars. ROTFL.)

 

An interesting Freudian slip there. "Boars". What 99% of LOTRO quests consists of killing.

In all of this discussion I think something of interest has been noted several times.

PvP.

What is the actual need for PvP. Is this what a majority of WoW players do (as a previous poster noted), and thus the reason it's population is so much higher than most other MMO's?

When AoC was launched it quickly became the #2 MMO (we are discussing launch and not the failed 3 month timeline Funcom has used to drive the game into the dirt).

People flocked to a PvP based game.

Is this what is needed to make a game more successful?

Even though Guild Wars is not discussed in the MMO world due to it's non-MMO standards (instanced worlds, etc.) look at how it consistently tops the Xfire charts, filled with games known for their competitive nature..(WoW, CoD4,  Warcraft, etc.). Why? Balanced, well done PvP. Guild Wars, if noted as an MMO would be the #2 most populated MMO (with people still advertising 400+ people guilds...yowsa).

I think we may have our answers soon enough when WAR releases. If WAR launches and keeps huge numbers (which I really think it will), then we will know that PvP is the answer to large populations.

Then I bet PvP could not come fast enough to LOTRO. Investors want returns, and now that Investors have shown an interest in Turbine, they will start shifting strategies when they get cornered on this issue.

Turbine will need to meet demands made by those investors, and I will not doubt changes down the road.

Originally posted by EbonHawk

Originally posted by openedge1

... choosing a game design that retells a story nearly every mmo player knows. It's repetitive before you even install the game.

Will anything I ever do in LOTRO ever have any impact on the gameworld or the story? No. It's already been decided - a short dude and his gardener trash some dodgy bling. It's mmo-lite.

And I think the developers came to realise this towards release - that lifetime subscription deal just screamed 'desperation' to me when I saw it.

The above quoted comment is probably the most important when discussing LOTRO.

The story has been told, and now we as players are reliving it. We know what will happen, so surprise is minimal. We will have no lasting effect on that story either.

Most MMO's have original storylines or are of a story we do not know. We are surprised or delighted when we uncover that story. Some games even make sure the world reflects what you do within the story.

If we look at say the upcoming LOTR:Conquest, you get a big "What If" style of gameplay, by being able to shape various battles. And you can play EVIL.

If they would have tried something "unique" with the gameplay, instead of sticking to the "safe"WoW formula, this could have made a difference for LOTRO. This could have made the servers almost as busy as WoW.

We have to ask. People can play LOTRO for a lot less than WoW, the game does not require huge computers to run, is relatively cheap to buy now even. Yet, the servers are not as full? Why?

My opinion is it just does not do much to motivate many players, but is good for the simple MMO player who wanted something else besides WoW. Guess we have to wait and see how MoM changes things if at all...

While I agree with some of the points expressed regarding LoTRO as a "casual friendly" game and the absolute outcome of the story is already decided, you have to take in consideration that that's what some people want.  To actually live and contribute to Tolkien's Middle-Earth.  And I believe Turbine is doing an excellent job supplying quality gameplay and service to it's existing customer base. 

There are plenty of subs in this game to keep it running for quite awhile and as long as Turbine continues to deal out superior "free" and paid expansions that cater to their fans it will continue to hold it's numbers.  And with the current state of newly released games being as poor as they are LoTRO has an opportunity to garner more.

But as DonnieB said in a previous post these are all opinions, nothing more and nothing less. And as the old saying goes...  "Opinions are like ass-holes...  Everybody has one"...

Agreed...why we all use a forum, to be a** holes...lol

But you said

"To actually live and contribute to Tolkien's Middle-Earth"

What do you contribute? What exactly can you do to leave your mark on a world that already exists though?

As to running the game for a while, this I have no doubts on...especially when Warner Bros helps with the distribution of MoM. I even noted in the trailer for MoM it had the music from the movie soundtracks. This could be a major boon to Turbine to have access to the movie materials, including the gorgeous models used in the other LOTR games from EA.

Hooray

Anyways, cheers

... choosing a game design that retells a story nearly every mmo player knows. It's repetitive before you even install the game.

Will anything I ever do in LOTRO ever have any impact on the gameworld or the story? No. It's already been decided - a short dude and his gardener trash some dodgy bling. It's mmo-lite.

And I think the developers came to realise this towards release - that lifetime subscription deal just screamed 'desperation' to me when I saw it.

The above quoted comment is probably the most important when discussing LOTRO.

The story has been told, and now we as players are reliving it. We know what will happen, so surprise is minimal. We will have no lasting effect on that story either.

Most MMO's have original storylines or are of a story we do not know. We are surprised or delighted when we uncover that story. Some games even make sure the world reflects what you do within the story.

If we look at say the upcoming LOTR:Conquest, you get a big "What If" style of gameplay, by being able to shape various battles. And you can play EVIL.

If they would have tried something "unique" with the gameplay, instead of sticking to the "safe"WoW formula, this could have made a difference for LOTRO. This could have made the servers almost as busy as WoW.

We have to ask. People can play LOTRO for a lot less than WoW, the game does not require huge computers to run, is relatively cheap to buy now even. Yet, the servers are not as full? Why?

My opinion is it just does not do much to motivate many players, but is good for the simple MMO player who wanted something else besides WoW. Guess we have to wait and see how MoM changes things if at all...

Originally posted by green13

Originally posted by solareus

I think WoW and other games player base don't have the attention and willingness to dive into something like LotrO because of it's massive lore , character cultures and time line. The story is just to big for them to play through to the end , the end of the "One Ring"

 

It's comments like this that will get every single thing you say instantly dismissed as fanboi guff.

Turbine themselves had a very limited understanding of LOTRO's lore. Once upon a time there were to be no magic users in the game, because of it's "massive lore" which they had a limited grasp of. It was poor ignorami like me who piped up on the LOTRO forums and pointed out that if you read beyond the three LOTR books, there was abundant evidence of the use of magic in Middle Earth by folk other than the five Istari. Even in the books there are several hints of this.

Turbine did an excellent job creating the game they set out to make. But the game they set out to make has limited appeal in the mmo market, and as a result, LOTRO is a niche game.

The "deficiency" is in Turbine's design, not in the players of every other mmo but LOTRO.

Most MMO players don't want to play a "story-based" mmo - especially a story they've already seen/read.

It's great that you enjoy it, but slagging off at those who don't - who happen to be the majority - is unnecessary.

I think it is called "Been there, done that".

Now, like I have said in the past...,make some major changes to visuals, UI, gameplay mechanics to make it more interactive than kill 10x style questing, then I think it could change the field.

I am unsure if Turbine could do massive sieges, but this would be a good pull. Do more puzzle style quests (which isn't one of the bases of the Hibbit for example was riddles and puzzles?), and we may have something here.

The game has mass PvE appeal, but it needs something a little more enticing to pull in the various other crowds.

Or like you said...will stay niche.

Originally posted by jarish

Here are some I pulled from the forums...don't know what the settings are though.

 

Well, I was able to fix this one.

But, this one shows my point of contention.

As a male myself (ya, ya, go figure), I do not have and have NEVER in my life had a size 2 waist as is exhibited on this character.

The facial details are also non-existent. But, as Turbine has shown with the new NPC's for Book 14, I do believe that they can make progress on the models. I like the DDO models faces considerably more as well, and those display some great looking visuals.

So, MoM should be a winner if they advance the style.

Isnt there another word for this video?

Oh yea..

Guild Merges.