All Posts by Heptah

Originally posted by Cabe2323

Originally posted by Heptah

 

Originally posted by Cabe2323

Originally posted by teddyboy420

Here's the problem with EA, they discourage innovation in favor of the same ole tried-and-true formulas that have worked in the past. They stifle innovation within their in-house dev teams, and/or they won't take a chance on a game that is breaking the mold. Look at their library of games from the last few years, and their list of titles currentely in development, there is very little innovation. The bottom line is they make 99% of all their games for the least common denominator, which is sound business practice but in the end hurts the video game industry.

There's nothing wrong w/ being succesfull or wanting to continue success, but there IS most definately something wrong w/ repackaging a game year after year while only adding one or two new features and charging full price for it ala Madden, NASCAR, NHL, MLB and the NBA games. Or pumping out tiny little content additions every 3 months and slapping an expansion label on it while charging nearly full retail price of the original game like they did with virtually every single one of the Sims "expansions".

And since it's been documented extensively elsewhere, I won't go into the negative impact that their mis-treatment of their devs has on the industry as a whole.

Yeah, alot of the EA hate has to do with jealously of their size and success. It's just like all the Microsoft hate. Alot of it stems from nothing but petty jealousy and Americas love for the underdog, coupled w/ the cool "rebel factor" people feel when they speak out against "the Man". But there are also many valid reasons for people to dislike EA.

Except for the fact that their old CEO retired and the new one has already spoken out against making sequels.  he actually called it boring.  So the fact that their new CEO doesn't agree with that style of developing and coupled with him going out and getting Bioware makes me think that EA will definitely be the place for some great original games here in the future. 

The rest of your posts talked about how great EA was in the past. Making awesome innovative games every year.

 

If that is the case, why the new direction by the new CEO?

He didn't leave he took a position as Executive Chairman,  the dude was getting old.

Its going to be the same old EA - sequels, sequels sequels. I dont believe this guy for a second.

Still have not answered how firing people is not forcing them to leave the company, with regard to Origin.

Actually I did answer it. Origin themselves caused the problem and caused all of the firings.

Actually your first answer was that they all left. Then you said that EA was not happy. But still maintained that the Origin team left, they didnt EA forced them out and ran every single Origin classic franchise into the ground.

Based on pass practices of EA. The most likely thing to happen is for EA to push out games in the pipe for these 2 companies, develop sequels and other titles tied to the IP of the acquired companies for a few years.

Most of the development teams from these 2 companies leaving in about 3-5 years. EA driving the franchise  into the ground.

Calling something great because it sold more copies then something else is kinda like saying knickleback is the greatest rock band of all time. A lot of great games never sold well when they first came out. Doesnt change the fact that they were great games.

Actually it would be like calling The Beatles, Rolling Stones, Elvis, Led Zepplin, etc great.  They all sold tons of albums and were considered great.

Or Britney Spears, NSYNC, Backstreet Boys, Creed greatest artist every based on album sales. Some great artist sell well, some don't, Some awesomely bad crap also sells well. Sales is not a good indicator of the quality of an artistic work, that is all that I am saying.

For all your talk of UO being a UO project, Were you there around the time of UO launch? Because nobody viewed that thing as an EA project. It when EA peeps started running the game that it went to shit. You can trace the timeline of UO's downfall to the departure and replacement of key people in the company.

Yes I was around at the UO launch I was a UO beta Tester.  No one cared back then about who was running what because back then it didn't matter.  That is why people didn't pay attention to who the owners were.  Not until after the whole SOE thing with SWG did people really start paying attention.

BS - we all cared about who was running the show. At least all my friends did. We knew who the devs were, we knew what they had done in the past. When some new dude showed up, we were always like who the hell is this guy. Claiming that you didnt notice the Origen guys leaving UO is like you claiming that you were on the titanic and didnt notice it sinking.

And if some company fired every single one of my friends that I had worked with for 10-15 years, i would say they pretty much puttting up a huge sign that they didnt want me around anymore, but couldnt fire me because I had a better contact then my friends they fired.

What if that company fired every single one of your friends because of you.  You caused them to get fired, would you still blame yourself?  Because that is what Garriot did.

Thats not really how things played out and everyone knows it. Origin employees found that there projects got canceled by EA guys, everyone was forced to work on the same sequel projects or moved to other EA projects. EA slowly started to trim Origin team and it was not about mis management by Origin, it was about different priorites from EA. They wanted sequels, big money makers, less innovative (TIME CONSUMING) projects.

 Edit: yes I am a bitter ex UO player and I loved old most of the old Origin games. EA fooled me once with this line that they are new company, and they are going to do things different. Nope, i am not buying it this time.

Bioware MMORPG = gonna be a complete rehashing of WOW with different graphics...this move just guarantees that. And it also makes it less and less likely that its a SW MMO; because no way a LA license is surviving this buyout.

There wasn't much of a chance of this game being a SW MMO anyways.  Why on earth would LA license someone else to make a Star Wars MMO.  The first one bombed commercially and even though there are a ton of PRE-NGE fans on these boards there aren't all that many to play the game.  Star Wars just didn't translate well into an MMO.  Their better choice would be to make one of their own IPs into a MMO.

I never thought it would be personally, but this just seals the deal that it is not.

 

I am done arguing here.

EA is despised by pretty much every quality development team out there.

I like valve's response to EA trying to buy them "Go f*** yourself" (thats aimed at EA not you)

These large conglomerates are not the ones making the great games of the past 20 years, they just aren't. The less indepents you have the lower the bar gets lowered on what is great because you do not have them out there competing to create the next great game. Everyone is just out there working for some conglemerate trying to make a deadline, trying to market crap.

The Gaming industry is quickly becomeing just like the movie industry. Full of suits trying to make art.

P.S. The more i think about the more i start to think back about playing the Sims, and you know what in retrospect that thing stunk too, it bored me out of my mind after a few days of play, and i love even the sim city sequels.

Originally posted by Cabe2323

Originally posted by teddyboy420

Here's the problem with EA, they discourage innovation in favor of the same ole tried-and-true formulas that have worked in the past. They stifle innovation within their in-house dev teams, and/or they won't take a chance on a game that is breaking the mold. Look at their library of games from the last few years, and their list of titles currentely in development, there is very little innovation. The bottom line is they make 99% of all their games for the least common denominator, which is sound business practice but in the end hurts the video game industry.

There's nothing wrong w/ being succesfull or wanting to continue success, but there IS most definately something wrong w/ repackaging a game year after year while only adding one or two new features and charging full price for it ala Madden, NASCAR, NHL, MLB and the NBA games. Or pumping out tiny little content additions every 3 months and slapping an expansion label on it while charging nearly full retail price of the original game like they did with virtually every single one of the Sims "expansions".

And since it's been documented extensively elsewhere, I won't go into the negative impact that their mis-treatment of their devs has on the industry as a whole.

Yeah, alot of the EA hate has to do with jealously of their size and success. It's just like all the Microsoft hate. Alot of it stems from nothing but petty jealousy and Americas love for the underdog, coupled w/ the cool "rebel factor" people feel when they speak out against "the Man". But there are also many valid reasons for people to dislike EA.

Except for the fact that their old CEO retired and the new one has already spoken out against making sequels.  he actually called it boring.  So the fact that their new CEO doesn't agree with that style of developing and coupled with him going out and getting Bioware makes me think that EA will definitely be the place for some great original games here in the future. 

The rest of your posts talked about how great EA was in the past. Making awesome innovative games every year.

If that is the case, why the new direction by the new CEO?

Still have not answered how firing people is not forcing them to leave the company, with regard to Origin.

Based on pass practices of EA. The most likely thing to happen is for EA to push out games in the pipe for these 2 companies, develop sequels and other titles tied to the IP of the acquired companies for a few years.

Most of the development teams from these 2 companies leaving in about 3-5 years. EA driving the franchise  into the ground.

Calling something great because it sold more copies then something else is kinda like saying knickleback is the greatest rock band of all time. A lot of great games never sold well when they first came out. Doesnt change the fact that they were great games.

For all your talk of UO being a UO project, Were you there around the time of UO launch? Because nobody viewed that thing as an EA project. It when EA peeps started running the game that it went to shit. You can trace the timeline of UO's downfall to the departure and replacement of key people in the company.

And if some company fired every single one of my friends that I had worked with for 10-15 years, i would say they pretty much puttting up a huge sign that they didnt want me around anymore, but couldnt fire me because I had a better contact then my friends they fired.

 Edit: yes I am a bitter ex UO player and I loved old most of the old Origin games. EA fooled me once with this line that they are new company, and they are going to do things different. Nope, i am not buying it this time.

Bioware MMORPG = gonna be a complete rehashing of WOW with different graphics...this move just guarantees that. And it also makes it less and less likely that its a SW MMO; because no way a LA license is surviving this buyout.

Originally posted by Cabe2323

Originally posted by Nevarion

Oh really?

Even that article makes it sound like Bioware doesn't see this as a horrible thing.  They see it as an opportunity.

yeah i am sure all those ex-EA devs are loving this. I wonder how long their contracts are.

Originally posted by Cabe2323

 

Originally posted by Heptah

 

Originally posted by Cabe2323

Originally posted by Heptah

 

1) Pre EA take over Origin guys led the development of UO - EA guys took it over after release and ran it into the ground. That is a fact. I was there at beta and launch. We know who the devs are that started and led the poject and we know where they went. Most people also will know why they left. Its not a mystery.

They chose to move onto new things after Garriott messed up Origin.  It wasn't EA's fault that the management at Origin hired 200 new employees (doubling their team size) and started 20-40 new projects and then just completely dropped the ball.  Origin (not EA) canclled a bunch of those projects themselves and then got in trouble by wasting a ton of EA's money.

2) EA fired Origin devs for trying to come up with original ideas like they did when you know they were at origin. EA doesnt do original it does the same game over and over and over and over and over again. But they fired them, they moved them and they ruined a great gaming studio.

NO EA fired ORIGIN Devs because ORIGIN MANAGEMENT messed up and didn't maintain any resemblance of control.  They were out of control and EA had to step in and clean house.  EA didn't come in and immediately fire a bunch of Devs or can a bunch of projects.  Origin actually doubled in size and doubled in projects that they were working on after EA bought them.  If they had been able to properly manage their department they would of been fine.  (that all comes from Garriot himself by the way)

3) BS...either your friends who play sports games are crazy or you work for EA. I am leaning towards EA marketing guy/girl on this one. If madden is better, then why buy the license and force out the competition. Wouldn't customers just buy your better game?

While 2k was new and had great ideas it wasn't as fun as Madden was. 

EA is going to ruin the franchises these guys bring to the table, do not doubt that. Maybe not the first one or  two out of the box. But 4 years from now when the devs who made those games have moved on (they all do) EA suits will move in and mass produce crappy sequels till they cant ring any more money out of the former fans of the series.

Like they did to Maxis?  Oh wait the best selling PC Game of all time was created by Maxis after EA bought them.  AS well as a Sequel that is as highly acclaimed.

EA; Kill any good quality companies today? EA, brining you the same game we brought you last year but this time with new people on the cover.

This is just plain stupid, EA tries to put out successful commercial games.  That is what all big developers try to do.  They are in it to make money.  This is no different then what Vivendi does, or NCsoft, or SOE, or Nintendo, or Microsoft.

EA put out a lot of games I know that I have tried that got great reviews for example:

American McGee's Alice - Not only good reviews but an original game.

Battlefield series all got 80%+ reviews with battlefield 2 being considered one of the best.  Same with Medal of Honor games/

Black & White - Oh wait another Original Game from EA?  No it couldn't be and it got great reviews.

Clive Barker's Undying - 85% average reviews and original

Command & Conquer Generals qhile not quite the same reviews and the first two C&C games it still got an average of 84%.

CRYSIS - Oh wait could one of the most innovative and technically superior FPS games coming out be from EA?

Freedom Force - another good original game with average reviews of 90%.

Lord of the Rings Battle for Middle Earth 1+2, Both 80%+ games both real good RTS games.

SimCity 4 still even got everage reviews of 84%

SPORE will be coming as well,  Super innovative game.  Defintely not rushed.  Super original.  And guess what it is from EA. 

And of course the BEST selling PC Game series of all time and one of the best of any platform with around 90+ million sales and creative reviews of 90%+ The Sims and The Sims 2. 

/Sarcasm on

So yeah Sure EA just puts out crap. 

/sarcasm off

 

Do you work for EA?

 

 

Because not 1 of those games you noted was innovative in anyway. And that is what EA kills is innovative and creative studios.

They are good a producing sequels and games that are like other games.

Getting and 80% score is nothing to brag about. It just means your game does not suck. It does not mean it was great.

THE Sims wasn't innovative?  SPORE isn't innovative? 

 

What is your definition of innovative then?  Because it must be completely different then what the industry considers innovative.  Because both of those games have been heavily toted as innovative. 

 

You might want to stop with the personal attacks and claims that I work for EA.  I got a 30 day ban for doing the same thing to some posters and stating they should work for Blizzard.

Sims - thats 1. Marginally great game, but probably not in anyone's top 25 of all time.

how innovative was sims 2.

You still have not answered how firing employees is not forcing them to leave?

Or how moving them to other projects outside the studio they worked might contribute to them wanting to leave.

Edit: I have my doubts about spore being anything other than a rehashing of other game designs with different graphics. I wait to be astounded by the brilliance of Will Wright.

Originally posted by Cabe2323

Originally posted by Heptah

Originally posted by Pyrostasis

Your wasting your time bro... he is drinking the EA Koolaid, you cant argue with him.

More likely an EA marketing person IMO.

People don't seem to get it.  The Dev's in most of these small companies are the ones that decide to sell their company to a large conglamorate.  They do so to cash out.  They want to make a whole lot of money.  In a lot of cases they turn around and leave the company and start up a new one because they like to be the boss.  But they wanted to cash out.  EA doesn't do anything to these Developers to make them leave.  That is obvious by the fact that Will Wright is still with the company. 

Most of the devs from Origin were fired, they didnt leave. That is a fact. How is firing someone not making them leave?

Originally posted by Cabe2323

Originally posted by Heptah

 

1) Pre EA take over Origin guys led the development of UO - EA guys took it over after release and ran it into the ground. That is a fact. I was there at beta and launch. We know who the devs are that started and led the poject and we know where they went. Most people also will know why they left. Its not a mystery.

They chose to move onto new things after Garriott messed up Origin.  It wasn't EA's fault that the management at Origin hired 200 new employees (doubling their team size) and started 20-40 new projects and then just completely dropped the ball.  Origin (not EA) canclled a bunch of those projects themselves and then got in trouble by wasting a ton of EA's money.

2) EA fired Origin devs for trying to come up with original ideas like they did when you know they were at origin. EA doesnt do original it does the same game over and over and over and over and over again. But they fired them, they moved them and they ruined a great gaming studio.

NO EA fired ORIGIN Devs because ORIGIN MANAGEMENT messed up and didn't maintain any resemblance of control.  They were out of control and EA had to step in and clean house.  EA didn't come in and immediately fire a bunch of Devs or can a bunch of projects.  Origin actually doubled in size and doubled in projects that they were working on after EA bought them.  If they had been able to properly manage their department they would of been fine.  (that all comes from Garriot himself by the way)

3) BS...either your friends who play sports games are crazy or you work for EA. I am leaning towards EA marketing guy/girl on this one. If madden is better, then why buy the license and force out the competition. Wouldn't customers just buy your better game?

While 2k was new and had great ideas it wasn't as fun as Madden was. 

EA is going to ruin the franchises these guys bring to the table, do not doubt that. Maybe not the first one or  two out of the box. But 4 years from now when the devs who made those games have moved on (they all do) EA suits will move in and mass produce crappy sequels till they cant ring any more money out of the former fans of the series.

Like they did to Maxis?  Oh wait the best selling PC Game of all time was created by Maxis after EA bought them.  AS well as a Sequel that is as highly acclaimed.

EA; Kill any good quality companies today? EA, brining you the same game we brought you last year but this time with new people on the cover.

This is just plain stupid, EA tries to put out successful commercial games.  That is what all big developers try to do.  They are in it to make money.  This is no different then what Vivendi does, or NCsoft, or SOE, or Nintendo, or Microsoft.

EA put out a lot of games I know that I have tried that got great reviews for example:

American McGee's Alice - Not only good reviews but an original game.

Battlefield series all got 80%+ reviews with battlefield 2 being considered one of the best.  Same with Medal of Honor games/

Black & White - Oh wait another Original Game from EA?  No it couldn't be and it got great reviews.

Clive Barker's Undying - 85% average reviews and original

Command & Conquer Generals qhile not quite the same reviews and the first two C&C games it still got an average of 84%.

CRYSIS - Oh wait could one of the most innovative and technically superior FPS games coming out be from EA?

Freedom Force - another good original game with average reviews of 90%.

Lord of the Rings Battle for Middle Earth 1+2, Both 80%+ games both real good RTS games.

SimCity 4 still even got everage reviews of 84%

SPORE will be coming as well,  Super innovative game.  Defintely not rushed.  Super original.  And guess what it is from EA. 

And of course the BEST selling PC Game series of all time and one of the best of any platform with around 90+ million sales and creative reviews of 90%+ The Sims and The Sims 2. 

/Sarcasm on

So yeah Sure EA just puts out crap. 

/sarcasm off

 

<Mod Edit>

Because not 1 of those games you noted was innovative in anyway. And that is what EA kills is innovative and creative studios.

They are good a producing sequels and games that are like other games.

Getting and 80% score is nothing to brag about. It just means your game does not suck. It does not mean it was great.

Originally posted by Cabe2323

 

Originally posted by Heptah

 

Originally posted by Cabe2323

 

Originally posted by Nevarion

Some names...

Westwood, Origin, Bullfrog, Maxis.

Their track record for ruining game studios is legend.

EA Didn't Ruin Origin.  They purchased it in 1992 and Origin still released many games that were highly rated after that.   Then The core development team decided to leave 8 years after being purchased.  That is what ruined Origin. 

 

 

They fired or moved most of the dev team...most of them didnt leave they were fired. The higher level people left after most of the people that worked for them left. No way to spin that. Ask anyone that was there, that is how it happened.

 

UO was origin developed, because it was thought up by origin people from before the EA buyout. The core dev team on the project were pre EA origin employees.

EA contribution to UO = Trammel. nuff said in my opinion.

If you want a crap game built on the license of a former great game look for a EA project. Origninality is a curse word at EA and they will admit that. EA is a conveyer belt for sequels and basically churning out the same game year after year, that players buy.

Probably the best example showing that EA is not interested in making games is what happened after 2k football came out on dreamcast and was better than Madden has ever been. EA didnt decide to make a better game, they decided to just buy the exclusive license. Its a crap company making crap games.

 

 

 

You can't claim EA had nothing to do wiht making UO.  Garriot went to Probst specifically to get the funding for UO.  EA Purchased Origin 5 full years before UO was released.  So no I am sorry but EA fully funded and produced UO.  They had an EA VP over the studio during that time frame. 

 

EA Fired Origin employees because according to Garriot themselves they got out of hand.  They were wasting money like crazy and cancelling projects left and right (Origin not EA) so finally EA got fed up and said these guys are a bunch of screw ups we need to fix this.  So they got more iron fisted after Origin messed up. 

EA has never been super ironfisted with Maxis and that is because Maxis never messed up.  Maxis had their name on the boxes for years after they were bought by EA. 

It is very objective on whether 2K football was better.  Most people I know that play Sports games never liked it in the first place.  Too many people that hate EA are confusing innovation with Fun.  They do not equal each other.  EA focuses on making fun games that will sell a ton of copies.  Customers care about Fun and that is what will cause them to buy massive amounts of games not innovation.

2) EA fired Origin devs for trying to come up with original ideas like they did when you know they were at origin. EA doesnt do original it does the same game over and over and over and over and over again. But they fired them, they moved them and they ruined a great gaming studio.

3) BS...either your friends who play sports games are crazy or you work for EA. I am leaning towards EA marketing guy/girl on this one. If madden is better, then why buy the license and force out the competition. Wouldn't customers just buy your better game?

EA is going to ruin the franchises these guys bring to the table, do not doubt that. Maybe not the first one or  two out of the box. But 4 years from now when the devs who made those games have moved on (they all do) EA suits will move in and mass produce crappy sequels till they cant ring any more money out of the former fans of the series.

EA; Kill any good quality companies today? EA, brining you the same game we brought you last year but this time with new people on the cover.

Originally posted by Cabe2323

 

Originally posted by Nevarion

Some names...

Westwood, Origin, Bullfrog, Maxis.

Their track record for ruining game studios is legend.

EA Didn't Ruin Origin.  They purchased it in 1992 and Origin still released many games that were highly rated after that.   Then The core development team decided to leave 8 years after being purchased.  That is what ruined Origin. 

 

 

UO was origin developed, because it was thought up by origin people from before the EA buyout. The core dev team on the project were pre EA origin employees.

EA contribution to UO = Trammel. nuff said in my opinion.

If you want a crap game built on the license of a former great game look for a EA project. Origninality is a curse word at EA and they will admit that. EA is a conveyer belt for sequels and basically churning out the same game year after year, that players buy.

Probably the best example showing that EA is not interested in making games is what happened after 2k football came out on dreamcast and was better than Madden has ever been. EA didnt decide to make a better game, they decided to just buy the exclusive license. Its a crap company making crap games.

Single FFA PvP server with conquerable lands (improve game mechanics so that older characters are not guaranteed a win, and there will be less griefing)

Collision detection

Friendly fire on AOE damage

Player cities (but with restrictions on where they can be built)

No easy way of travel - ease of travel ruins many a good game. MMORPG are not CS.

Everyone in the game needs to eat and drink to stay alive and keep their stats up - this includes the npc's as well as the players.

Farming

Deep crafting system (think original SWG)

Skills not classes,

Fun not grind

No uber Loot

Raid are fine but should not be a focus

Good smart pve that does not focus on grinding...more story driven quest arcs that involve, travel, trade, killing and exploration.

Many many more NPC's - I kinda hate that there are more players around than ordinary citizens...makes it feel less like the players are the elite part of the game world.

Cities will have building that can be rented, turned into apartments, or stores...al sorts of things, like a real city

Player driven economy

Gear decay

Player accountability - Characters and accounts are linked to a single person - if you are allowed to have extra chars or extra accounts then any player can find out all of your alts. I think this would curb some of the crap players do to each other.

Lots of other things too...but that is off the top of my head

game that relies on dev content for end game.

Gear dependent stat progression

Non-degrading gear

Instanced content

Originally posted by vajuras

 

Originally posted by Heptah

Darkfall and PvP games in gen