All Posts by Dundee

Originally posted by haxxjoo

I do not buy people at SOE dont like what was done or the way it happened.  They admit they choose to push for the NGE.  There is developer blog entries to prove it so.  They sold it to LA.  LA bought it hook line and sinker.

Originally posted by Veiled_light
I remember in one of his posts he said "i was suprised to find out you can only control your guild via a terminal, this has gotta change". I found this sooooo funny because he makes posts to us telling us whats going on, he doesn't even know himself :S

Originally posted by akevv
What I want to know is why Trials of Obi Wan was not given a valid chance?

 It was released with the CU code behind it and it was a fun addition to the game. The expansion had a bit of something for everyone. In time, with the promised revamps for Ranger and such, things were finally looking pretty good, from a player's perspective.

 If I were in charge for a week, I would put THIS release on test center for folks to bang around on. It is STILL in a better condition, with more available working content than the NGE over a year later. Everyone knows that test center is not a permanent server and that customer service is limited/not available. Use test center with CU ToOW loaded and gauge interest. If the server fills to capacity, then try a real server. If it flops, no harm done.

Originally posted by iskareot

Rofl..lol now that is funny too.

Well.... I can see it now.. (Helios) --"I have this idea... NO CAMPS, I mean really what the fuck do they do just sitting around in them anyway??" -- scrap it..!

CH --- SCRAP IT!

Complex thinking --- SCRAP IT!

Skill boxes --- SCRAP IT!!!

Originally posted by FikusOfAhazi
Why will NO ONE from SOE ever even admit to the existence of the original CURB that was scrapped...and why it was scrapped? Strange. Whats the deal?

Originally posted by AfroPuff

I would absolutely sell the FARM to hear the inside track on how that development team functioned.  Sell it ALL.  Something was seriously broken there, and the details just have to be fascinating.

Oh, there are way too few data-points on that chart for it to serve as any evidence of a "defining moment".

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

I just want to remind everyone here, and Mr. Freeman.

All the players of SWG ever wanted was more content. We did not ask for a new combat system, and we did not ask for the NGE. EVER.

While there were some issues with the combat system we had, they were minor compared to the want, and need of more content in SWG. The Viturial world was loved by many, and was NVER the reason subscriptions got smaller. It was a very simple fact that more content and things to do (as in adventure areas) were needed. That’s it, and that’s all it ever was.

And that’s exactly what players were telling you since beta, with forum postings, open letter, e-mail, and finally, wallets.

Originally posted by Suvroc

 

First of all I apologize if this sounds "trollish". I would simply like to know who made the decisions that brought us to this state.

Secondly, as much as I can appreciate humor this still isn't an answer. Maybe this will help...

accountable: subject to the obligation to report, explain, or justify something; responsible; answerable

I certainly appreciate your candor, but I'm not completely sold. It would appear from your graph that the steady decline of subs were a result of the CU, not pre-CU.

Originally posted by Suvroc

Ok then. Who is to blame?

Someone needs to be held accountable.

Originally posted by War_Dancer

Originally posted by Dundee

Ah... Depends on what you mean by "real development". Thing is, when I read the forums and then look at their publish notes and plans, I see that they are listening to the players: working on the game they have now, for the players they have now. But I also see that they're savaged the entire time for "ignoring the players", because so many are asking for pre-CU and of course, not getting it.

That hostility is well earned from previous actions though and a few odd posts now and then don't suddenly erases past neglect or bad behavior ..... that has to be earned through constant honest actions and communications.

I just don't see how that's possible when every action is interpreted as a communication-failure.

Originally posted by Dundee

Originally posted by Enforcer71

Originally posted by Obee

They spent the last year tweaking the game and trying to balance it for PvP, just because that was the type of gameplay the devs enjoy.

Very well put, you hit the nail on the head

> because that was the type of gameplay the devs enjoy

Untrue, though.

Untrue? Both ChrisCao and Helios showed themselves to be very anti crafters and other strong elements of sandbox style games in their posts after the NGE. Helios dev bio also stated his main areas of intrest in SWG were only combat and PvPer. Possibley they were trying to paint the NGE in the best light but if they didn't believe what they were saying they shouldn't have posted it.

Originally posted by Enforcer71

Originally posted by Obee

Maybe if somone at SOE would get over thier fear of reading posts that don't shower them with praise, Smed wouldn't have to keep posting about how much they need to improve communication with their players.  He made similar posts after the CU and the NGE ('We're going to listen to you more').  It didn't happen then and it won't happen now.

He has said many time that he doesn't like to discuss SWG because the conversations always come down to people wanting the pre-NGE game back.  He used that as an excuse why he doesn't read the official forums.  Over a year later, and he still is hiding from his customers because he doesn't want to give them what they are still asking for.

His first point is what has been wrong with the development of SWG since it was released.  They focused on tweaking game mechanics instead of adding content, even though that was what most of the play kept asking for.  They spent the last year tweaking the game and trying to balance it for PvP, just because that was the type of gameplay the devs enjoy.  They are then surprised that PvP wasn't important to a majority of their customers, even after they had a poll that said only around a fifth of the players PvP.

There is no way they can fix the game if they continue to ignore solutions they don't like.  Making the same "I know we haven't done a good job so far" post ever year doesn't help if they don't act on it.  Under the current management at SOE, I don't see them acting on it.

Very well put, you hit the nail on the head

Originally posted by haxxjoo

So what do you think then is the probability of any real development on the NGE platform being done?  Assuming that is indeed the real problem of running two versions side by side.  I mean we have seen a development staff undergo a 3rd or 4th change in leadership.  What purpose does it serve SOE to solicate feedback and ask veterans for things from the Pre-CU they'd like to see reimplimented if realistically there just isn't the will at SOE to seem to invest any more dollars into the project?  Any changes they would do probably won't satisfy the disgruntled ex-swg players.  It just makes it look like more poor communication.

I cannot see the numbers but at this point if its not profitable either way with the NGE having a lower total subscriber base how much real ingame improvements could we expect to see in the future with this product?  I mean the developers seem to be between a rock and a hard place.  Rolling back to them is like taking the game backwards and really has a subscriber ceiling apparently of about 200k users, which according to John Smedley just wasn't enough.

That's not exactly what he said... I'll snip some, because the whole post muddies the waters with references to codebase complexity, fun-level and such-n-such:

Smedly wrote:

With the game the way it was we knew we would never be able to attract enough people to really keep SWG viable as a business. It certainly would have kept some portion of our existing playerbase for a good long time, and we would have put out new expansions and new content as well as fixing bugs.. but it wouldn't have appealed to the really large Star Wars fanbase out there.. and frankly over time the existing userbase would have churned out as happens in any game like this.

While not all that accurate, the mmochart.org are the most accurate publicly available numbers there are. Plus we just need to look at the trend here, not the accuracy of any specific point:

Those numbers were dropping. The "do nothing" option wouldn't keep SWG alive. If they'd looked at the numbers and found 200k subs holding steady, I doubt they'd have gambled that. Looking ahead, and you're risking much closer to zero.

The comparison we keep seeing here is the top unofficial number of subscribers SWG ever had, to the number estimated today. But compare how many  were projected by this time to the number today, and it isn't  much lower. It's a little lower, with a better retention rate, a game which can be maintained by a smaller team, with better content creation tools.

Not saying this to defend the decision or anything like that. I wish we hadn't done it. I'd rather thank everyone for playing and turn the damned thing off than create the level of hate this change did.

Or I'd at least like to change my name first.

Just pointing out: it can be profitable to run the game even though there are fewer subscribers than before, cause there would have been fewer than before no matter what. Given the right framework, it might even be profitable to run two, three, or ten versions of SWG with micro-teams and a small core uber-team of ace developers (that should be working on something more profitable) ... but I know they don't have the license to do that.

Originally posted by Malickiebloo
I have tried to always present my anger over this debacle , In a civil manner . But you have to understand even now a year later . That is going to be a hard thing to do for a lot of people . Where these guys have nothing to lose by being less than civil . You on the other hand had better realize that you are talking to potential customers . Unless you have decided to give up game development. It may be in your best interest not to piss off anyone else over this , Through you rhetoric .

Yes we are mostly adults here , but this responce is a bit adolecent . You of all people should know trolls are all over the interweb . Being an industry profesional and all , I would expect a tad better from you . You may not care , You may even enjoy flaming back and forth . But I view you as more or less a spokesman for your employer , And my opinion of them is going down more and more with each of these responces .

I respect that you are willing to have a dialogue, That alone is admirable . But don't ruin that with flames and trolling .

Originally posted by haxxjoo

Before you get all perma banned for like forum warring.  Just kidding.  This aint the SOE boards.  Can you answer my question on how realistic of an approach it could be to use the test center servers and pre-cu servers and why that is so costly if you just release the pre-cu code on them and dub them sunset?

I'd really like to know why this wasn't implimented with the NGE as a way to appease the veteran community as its been suggested many times by the pre-cu crowd here and on the official forums.

Originally posted by TheSlider

Dude, I think you were "wrong about that profit-thing" when you designed the NGE.  It must feel pretty good to be known as the "creator of the NGE".

Originally posted by ShadowLords

You .... Mr. Freeman need to just fucking disapear.

I been working in the corporate environment for the last 12 years. Working for CEO's, VP's and Directors. ALL companies have a Board of Directors.

You and Smedley have NOT.

I just so happen to agree with this poster that IF $OE opened up like 5-7 preCU servers that they would be flooded with people.

This in turn would show how GREAT of a mistake the CU and to a greater extent ... the NGE was.  IF this occured this would show people at $ONY and $ONY Pictures that serious money had been lost thru developing SWG in a direction that was not good economically. Now add in the lost revenue over the last 15 months. NO company is going to tolerate someone that has lost them about 100 Mill or more in just a years time for very long.

The ONLY way $medley can save his arse is if the demands to change SWG into WoW came from $LA. But we all know .... thanks to you and your blog, they you and your idiot manager were the brain childs behind the NGE.

I just wanted to FUCKING personally thank you for wasting just over 2 yrs 8 months, some 3900 hours of time logged into the game, and over $1,300.00 of my hard earned money. Not to mention the ENJOYMENT that is all now lost.

How you even have the nerve to show yourself here is amazing.

 In addition ... yes "SOME" risks are always taken ... but those are usually thought out by people that can make a sound decision.

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Originally posted by Obee

Now, if you were on the Board of Directors of a company,

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John Smedley doesn't report to a Board of Directors, he reports to Yair Landau, president of Sony Pictures Digital.

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and the company just provided concrete evidence that they just wasted several million dollars working on something that actually drove away revenue, when they could have done nothing and kept a larger revenue stream,wouldn't you be a little upset? Wouldn't you want to get rid of the people who made the decision to drive away most of the revenue?

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Of course not, that's the very definition of risk: if you fail, you're worse off than if you'd done nothing.