All Posts by Gishgeron

Originally posted by Xxeon

Finnaly Coor got the right idea. see if anyone else takes the hint.

You guys come back in december then we will talk

  The trouble is....

  They've already played this game for years now.  Each "decemeber" they return to tell you all that this whole thing is a joke, and each year someone goes on about how they KNOW its gonna release in either Q1 or Q2 of the following year.  So then the faboys go on about how we should wait until THEN to talk about it....and so they do.  Then someone says, "But they said it would release this year....come back at decemeber!".

  This cycle has played out enough times already.  There is no game, there never will BE a game, and even assuming the best possible scenario (that an actual game both exists AND releases) the game WILL be horribly underpolished and filled with unfinished content and bug filled environments due to a complete lack of serious, devoted, testing phases. 

  Honestly...fans?  You guys would actually be better off just letting this game fade from memory.  Stop talking about, stop coming here, stop going to their site.  If everyone just ignored these idiots, they'd be forced to act in order to keep the hype alive.  If we pretend this game is real, then ignoring it completely would mean they actually got on the ball and began opening up to their community in a respectable and professional way.  Instead, you enable them to behave this way by supporting their every move instead of demanding better.

  I'm not going to even read this thread.  The title was enough.

  That statement is wrong.  The TRUTH would be:

  No decay = No economy

  Granted, full loot PK does move items from one player to another in a way in that ensures the PKer will most likely sell over half the items obtained.  This is one form of decay, an instant one.   There are many ways to issue a decay, however, that do not have anything to DO with PvP at all.  So long as decay exists, an fluid economy will as well.

  If you'd like, OP, I will discuss many of the options available for decay to help prove this point.  However, until then, I'm going to assume that you are clever enough to come up with enough on your own and not demean your intelligence by throwing some 5th grade level concepts at you.  I sort of guessed that you simply liked the simplicity of the PK decay and the advantages it brings to a team trying to make an economy.  I would remind you that, while there are advantages to the dev, the player suffers little more than hindrance from it.

  In a perfect game, a balance would be struck between natural decay, combat decay, and player decay in such a way as to not render the game to a state that found most new players unhappy.

Originally posted by Deviate

@ Salv.....I'm sure devs are banking on the subscribtions, not initial box sales.

@ Die.....Ofc you can use small craptastic dev teams as an example. I meant companies like Mythic, not Farlan, Sigil etc..

  You'd be quite wrong.

  When you can potentially clear investment AND draw profit from just the box sales (which is almost what AoC did, I cannot recall exactly what their initial investment figures were now) it begins to matter ALOT.  All that really matters in business is profit.  Basically, if a venture can secure a profit...its worth doing.  Assuming a horrible retention rate, if your box sales are high enough to pass overhead...everything you earn is clear money.  All you have to do is make cuts to ensure you continue to draw said money versus continued investment.  Most players are not hardcore, and therefore do not burn through a game in a single month.  That guarantees quite a bit of monthly profit before having to worry too much.

  Again, though....this all assumes you can score high box sales.  For any investor trying to score an easy buck...all you REALLY need to worry over is how well the team can market its product.  Subscriptions matter most to the parent company, but in the end, even they profit GREATER from high box sales as it gets them past the red zone. 

  Unless you're Blizzard, that is.  Then you simply don't care at all...because you fart gold and sweat silver.  At this point, they could probably make profit without selling a single thing.

  I ALWAYS LISTEN HERE!

  HERE IS THE PLACE TO LISTEN!

  Heh heh, this thread tickled me in places I didn't even know I had. 

Originally posted by Xxeon

Dont get ahead of Your self
 

It might blow everything out of the water probly not in subs.

As long as taso is being fairly honest the game will do fine. and be a great mmorpg.

  Yes...honesty....that....

  If he is being honest, then apparently there are super programs that can beta test your game for you without needing a true beta.  These "super bots" can apparently mimic actual game play provided by actual players and even simulate all the many stupid things these players can do.  How in gods name that is even possible is beyond me....since running a SINGLE debugger program in the background ran AoC's performance into the ground.  I can't imagine what running even 5 bot programs at once would do.  Never you mind that for optimal results they would need around 10-50K computers running these bots one at a time.

  Sounds like a hell of a waste of money compared to simply paying for the upkeep of one, single, beta server for an open beta and a decent closed one.

  The game WON'T be fine.  Something as professedly deep as this game is supposed to be would need twice the testing as the garbage these rollercoaster MMO's give us.  What Tasos is telling us is that he requires LESS testing than games that have under 1/3 the content.  Sure, you can RELEASE a game off just that.....it sure as hell doesn't mean its going to be GOOD, though.

Hmmm.....

I'll skip the bug thing.  Frankly, if you are releasing a game of any kind and DON'T go top notch for your QA then you deserve to lose it all anyway. 

My first bit of advice is along the same lines as another poster mentioned.  MMO's are social games, and live based on how well meshed its social structure is with its actual game.  In simpler terms, you spend the next few months thinking about how many ways you can make either MORE social ventures (grouping, ect) or how you can make them simpler, easier, faster, and more rewarding.  This is a BIG deal, and one that is rarely mentioned when players talk about what they 'want' from these games.

If its too hard to either use grouping tools or be involved in groups at all...you WILL suffer for it.  I don't mean a little either.

Next, make sure that every element of the games' combat is fluid and smooth.  There are little tricks you can use to "trick" fluid motion if your animation or modeling end is weak.  Its really important that each keystroke provide something immediate in feel to the action, however.  This is an area that Console games have long trumped MMO's...and its really sad since the PC was the very mother of fluid game action.  If at any point during your internal playing you find gaps in motion or flow while fighting something...fill it up.  If you would like ideals on what to fill it with, PM me and I'll think it over.  I have a few already just from typing this.

Finally, you have to give players something besides combat to do.  Crafting is often used as THE thing for this...but you actually have many options.  Side games and mini games are easy enough to add, and give much flavor without adding actual grind.  As an example...I always wondered why WoW never bothered trying to add something to the raceway in Shimmering Flats.  Letting players build interesting crafts to have an NPC race with would be fun.  Little things like that are like free endgame content.  They don't have to be directly rewarding (IE: epic gear)...they are innately rewarding as a player watches his own personalized creation win. 

To directly answer your question...while those things are important, there is one thing far more important than anything else.  Innovate.  Most gamers have played it ALL.  In this market, you really need to either innovate or really re-envision that which already exists.  Offer them something that NO other game has...even if its small.  Make it the most perfect part of the game (most polished and bug free)....and make it the headline for everything you say about it.

This is a KOTOR MMO.

Jedi isn't a "class"  All players would be sensitive to the force...and all players would progress through varying branches of it in their path toward one end or another.  The "classes" would be areas of the force they specifically trained in.  Those among you who argue against this are SWG castaways who forget that THIS universe is entirely different from the one presented in that game.

First...the era before the rise of the empire had plenty of force sensitive people.  Plenty of trained jedi as well.  If you actually follow the lore, Vader essentially slaughtered entire civilizations worth of people killing them all off.  The theme behind KOTOR was never "Playing as Uncle Ben".  It was about BEING one of those force sensitive, and playing through their growth.  Granted, it all turned out that you were a massively powerful dark side mofo that lost his memory...but THAT is for single player games.

Mark my words...all players will have ties to force powers.  That is the very backbone of the KOTOR universe.  As I have said before, there is actually 5000X more wiggle room for massive skill and ability choices if they go that route than otherwise anyway.  Its far better for balance to NOT have an alpha class anyway. 

  I dunno, I can actually see an angle here that DOES give credit to the hateful vets for the eventual death of SWG.  See...the Bioware MMo is not going to be anything like Pre-CU.  Its most likely going to be far more similar to the standard rollercoaster MMO with some wide options to put it in line with the KOTOR series.  What that translates into is a situation where players who are merely playing SWG for the IP and the style are going to leave it for Bioware as they will provide a better overall game cut from that cloth.

  However, had they simply left the old game alone....the hateful vets would have stuck around, because they liked the sandbox appeal of it.  In short by throwing US away to appeal to that crowd...they have completely destroyed any chance at all of surviving this new game.   By persisting on not playing galaxies....the vets ensure there are NO players that will be around to pull SOE out of this.

  So, no, the vets may not have been the crux behind which the new MMO was made.  They would have been the cushion to save SOE from eventual loss when it is made, however. 

I believe I hear the death knell ringing in the distance.

I'm not going to flame or fan out here....I'm just going to say that I've always thought that another SW MMO would come out, and that it would signal then end of this one.  Of SWG's small playerbase...there are a great many who are only there because of the IP.  If given the same IP, but from a better company with a better product...it will be akin to watching rats flee a sinking ship.

  Hex's post was pretty harsh.....

  There are a very substantial number of people who, when starting at the bottom of a given field, have to work for free just to get the needed experience under them.  Fashion, Music, Acting....these are just a few from the top of my head that require you to work for free in small venues before you EVER get looked at for anything with a salary attached to it.  As a musician myself...let me assure you, I've played at some pretty bottom tier places just to get the sound out there and get more comfortable with playing on a stage.

  Its a natural part of moving forward into a career.  I'm rather insulted that Hex would say any of the things that were said.  Hell...Yahtzee Croshaw got his start doing nothing more than making youtube videos.  I bet every last one of us would probably laugh at the very ideal of using THAT as a "resume item", but using nothing more than this he is now being paid to do something he loved.

  I know that I personally find mmorpg.com miles more professional (in regard to its writers) than something I'd pull off of youtube.  They are a site that is recognized by basically ALL of the industry.  Being backed by a group of people who are considered highly in the industry you are interested in is a GREAT way to break in, if you ask me.

EDIT:  there ARE...not there IS.  Good god, I apparently need to go back to high school for a month.

Originally posted by Maelkor

I suppose it comes down to something pretty simple. Most men love cute things - IE cute girls to hang out with look at etc. Only wierd males that I know of like to be the cute thing. To play an MMO usually means for most people to enter the world and envision yourself as being what that world represents. So to walk into an MMO world based on cuteness to envision yourself as the center of that cuteness is just a little wierd and odd, definately not for me :) . I do think though there is potentially a huge untapped market of females that would love that sort of thing and so I say go for it to them.

I dont know a single thing about this MMO and the closest I have come to the Hello Kitty world is a girl I knew about 5 years ago really loved the Hello Kitty stuff and even then I pretty much figured it was a girly thing and left it at that.

  Interesting post...it ties in with the insecurity thing well.  See...the very need to play a game and immerse yourself only in the character which best fits what you wish YOU could be is a big red flag for some deep security problems.  I do like to play things which are things I cannot be in real life....but most times my character is simply means to an end in that regard.

  I often do not view my character in game as some kind of virtual representation of my own self.  Except in CoX...where I actually MADE a character that looked exactly like me.  That technically WOULD be a virtual exactness of my own personal self.

My turn.

1:  Vibrant and interesting world.  I should be able to leave my first play session wanting to get back on to see the next zone....even if I hate everything else about it.

2:  User friendly and in depth UI.  For those who are incapable of CREATING one...I would simply direct them to WoW and demand a copy paste.  I could not care less if they ripped off the WoW one entirely...it worked, and fell well within my expectations of having a good one.

3:  Solid customization.  I need to be able to tweak my toon...frankly CoX has spoiled me, and in doing so...taught me that the only way to truly love your character (and thus, log onto him daily) is to have full control of his appearance and skillset.

4:  Controls that make bloody sense.  Seriously...at this point we should no longer have to debate over control schemes.  WASD should work, Click systems should work, and there should be a fully realized keymapping system in place to cover those that the first two didn't.  If I'm going to be playing something for 2-6 hours, the control set up had BEST not complicate the process.

5:  Innovation.  No joke...I've played it all before.  I'll by god play it again if you don't offer me something they didn't.

6:  Fluid combat with GOOD animation.  Combat should never have hitching, and nothing therein should remove you from the immersion of being in battle.  Regardless of whether you use active combat or not, it needs to be fluid and doing so IS possible for both.

7:  Writers who have a clue.  Seriously.  These aren't flash games.  I don't want to be FORCED to hear everything they have to say....but when I take the notion I'd like for it to actually pay off.  If your team is using writers with a history of nothing but childrens books...PASS.

8:  A simple and effective trade/merchant system.  A world wide auction house would be fine for me.  I don't WANT realistic.  When I take the notion to wander across 5 million stalls...I'll go to a flea market and actually get something I can have for the rest of my life.  Having to hunt across stalls just means I'm not enjoying the actual GAME.

9:  Crafting that wasn't designed by the guys who made lincoln logs.  Make me want to craft, people.  I DO get tired of smashing face....most of these worthless games offer me nothing else.

10:  Grouping that is rewarded, but not forced.  Simple, but not invasive.  Something backed by GREAT grouping UI (I direct you to WoW again.  The mod community there should have been hired on the spot for this kind of stuff)

  Last, and a clear tie with #10

11:  No horrid grinds.  I'll seriously tear your &@(#@*& face off if you even THINK of trying to sucker me into playing for 3 years because of how long it takes to reach cap.

  I actually plan to give the game a shot.  Hell, I've given lesser ones their chance...I see no cause to deny HKO its chance to stand on its own merits.  I also happen to be a man, married, and never one to have many issues when dealing with the opposite sex either.  I suppose I would then lack the proper insecurities required to be a "hater'.

  Frankly, at this point....HKO has just as much chance to kick ass as anything else.  I don't see any of the "men" games rocking socks off these days.  I'd actually be a major supporter of the "slap in the face" an HKO success would give this god forsaken industry.  It would be hilarious to see how SOE felt after realizing that, not only did they lose practically ALL of their market share to Blizzard....but that the greatest triad of cute, cute, and more cute also tore a second hole in their morally void anuses.

  Hell, forget having a good game.  I'd give these guys a single paid month just to see THAT happen.

Originally posted by Slampig

It is a good thing people like you and the SWG "Vets" are there to look out for us.

I mean, who knows  what would happen if we actually had to decide for ourselves...

 

  To be fair, in the case of SWG they at least have free trials up.  That game can burn on its own merits, and at no cost to you.

  So far as I have heard...there is no free trial here.  So the lies perpetuated by the company DO sort of need some opposition in order to at least inform people BEFORE making a purchase.  If you had to decide for yourself (and are among the many of us who would find a 50$ investment that leads to disappointment substantial loss) then you would simply be out the money and time. 

  Dunno 'bout you, hoss....but I ain't gettin' no younger.  Ain't gettin' no richer either. 

  While I think that neonaka probably needs a great deal more in terms of actual life experience and morality...I do feel the need to remind all of you of this:

  When defending the freedoms of a good man, you must also defend those of the crook.  In either case, should one's freedom fail...both will.

  The stickler here is two-fold, however.  Glider was a program you had to buy.  See...the thing here is...they are making money off of a product they do not actually hold any rights to.  On top of that, the software in question creates a situation that makes the product less enjoyable for those whom do not use it.  I think its sweet, neo, that you don't use the bot to farm gold...I really do.  The trouble is, it takes only ONE person to use it that way for it to impact every player on the server.  Now, I think you'd be willing to agree that there are a great deal more than one single player on each server using it to farm mats and gold for them.

  At the end of the day....you can never allow one mans freedom to take away from another mans freedom.  Your freedom to use that bot presents other players with an issue.  They can no longer simply play as casually as they were and progress financially as they did when they began.  They have lost their freedom to play their game as they were unless they pay this man for his bot.  I think its very sad that you support this...because this country is having some tough economic problems right now, and forcing people to pay even MORE money just to play the game they way they were before you came along is pretty terrible.

  You also take this court matter too far, neo.  The judge did not create a situation where you cannot HAVE the bot.  Indeed, you can still have the bot.  You cannot, however, run it while playing WoW.  You are allowed to have whatever you want on your PC.  You are not allowed to USE whatever you want when it pertains to the case of another persons property, of effects another persons freedom.  Similarly, you can own a gun all you want.  You cannot, however, use it to rob me and, thus, "save time" from having to go to work for 8 hours that day.

  In either case, you must understand that you are using something that takes something away from someone else.  Worse, you are financially supporting someone who both:

A:  Doesn't actually care two bits about you or your well being

B:  Deliberately operates in teh shadows amidst a sea of secrets and lies.

  I'm not sure why you feel so good doing that....nor do I understand why you feel you should defend him.  What he does is wrong....and he makes a fat stack of profit over creating a situation that damages the game for other players.  If you don't understand how botting hurts the players...I direct you to Silk Road.  Go ahead...play that game for a day.  Go see what happens when a game is allowed to have its botters run free and wild.  Level 12 items begin to cost well over 500 times what any legit level 12 person could have.  Good xp spots begin to be overcamps by the botters....denying the honest player a shot at it, forcing him to pick at the scraps left and level far slower.  Hell...that game even had PK, so the botters (whom were far better geared) would also be KILLING you.

  Game companies HAVE to stand hard, and stand fast against it.  If they let up...it gets out of control.

  Bah, lawsuits are things that cannot often be applied to the entertainment world.  The most one could ever get back is their initial money anyway...that assumes the court doesn't find the whole matter "frivolous".  Most serious courts aren't going to be assed with going through all these motions over pocket change.  One would be lucky to not be held in contempt for wasting taxpayer money on such things.

  The closest act I've ever seen in the gaming industry which could have possibly warranted such a thing was the NGE anyway.  The implications there were much more far reaching...and involved a LOT more money.  Even then, you'll notice, no success story has been heralded involving someone actually DOING it and winning.

Originally posted by Thomas2006

The only year Darkfall showed up at E3 they had nothing more then a booth to show of the game. There was no demo or anything other then some screenshots and paper info of the game.

This year they didn't even bother to show up at E3. Doesn't much sound like a game that is anywhere near launch.

  What....you didn't hear?  They are taking a totally NEW and GROUNDBREAKING path for releasing info and hard evidence about their game.

  They aren't.

  We should totally applaud them and support such new and innovative ideals.  It is something I'll be getting right around too....right as soon as I get done buying that swampland and finish playing Duke Nukem Forever.   I should probably thank those guys too...they seem to all be taking the very same approach, as it were.  Hmmm....now that I recall, very few of the people I meet in dark alleys seem to want to show me any of the great stuff they keep telling me about. 

  A trend, perhaps?

Originally posted by Souldrainer

AoC never cut anything.  Common misconception among those who did not read up on the change.  They MERGED several classes into others.  Waylayer was merged into ranger.  Lich mas merged into necro.  Druid of the storm was merged to Guardian and TOS, and Lotus Master was merged into Assassin.  So, what was actually cut? NOTHING.

This excessive misinformation is what mainly annoys me about the haters.

  Perhaps I missed something...

  I'm only paying attention to the most recent posts in the thread, so you'll have to excuse me if I've overlooked this....but the only thing I've heard said (in these recent posts) is that Funcom failed to deliver on some things promised, not that they cut things.  They DID cut things.  Bar fights, for one, is a real easy one to spot.  The entire bloody money PvP system is another.  Thats neither here nor there really....since the most current discussion was strictly about the comparison between WAR and AOC and the choice both are making and each implication therein.

Originally posted by darkstar912

 

Mythics cuts are minor to what AoC promised and failed to deliver.

  I feel compelled to add that they are also being very open and honest about what they cannot deliver.  That happens to be something ELSE that Funcom is in serious need of evaluating.   I think that Funcom might have seen a much lessened degree of backlash had they simply said:

  "Hey guys....look.  We've pushed back as far as our investors feel safe in letting us before seeing at least a little revenue back.  We don't want to have to pull the plug on this thing, so we're gonna lay it out for you.  Some things aren't perfect right now, and I know that it sucks.  Overall, the core gameplay is running fairly well...and the vast majority of you should enjoy the first month of your game time well enough that it won't bother you.  We're gonna do our