All Posts by Gishgeron

I stopped caring about Hype when Fable came out.  As the first game to ever fail to meet my expectations on such a grand scale, it taught me to ignore all hype and just rely on players to inform me.  For the final test, I inform myself by trying it if player feedback is at LEAST 50/50.

I actually prefer FPS combat,,,,but only in FPS games.

MMO combat also comes with a massive world and like....stuff.  Since I happen to be a fan of aforementioned stuff, I always defect to MMO PvP.

As far as Item needs....we'll I guess you can just go make an MMO with nothing but fist combat.  Because otherwise, games need items.  Items gotta come from somewhere.  To appeal to the largest mass of players...a crafting based MMO ain't gonna cut it most likely.  I suspect AoC is trying to appeal to a very large mass.

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Seriously? 

Yes, the vets will be TRULY appeased now that animations are being fixed. 

I hate being overly sarcastic (Because it numbs people to my everyday, acceptable sarcasm), but thats a pretty long reach as far as hopes go bub.  So far that I'm not even going to flame or bring up "past" issues.  I'm just gonna chuckle and wonder whether or not SOE is drugging its current subscribers.

Very true.

Our testament and resolve is the only thing preventing other companies from doing similar things to their players.  Now, not one company out there is going to be stupid enough to attempt such a move ever again because they KNOW, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that we will not only leave...but also remove ourselves from anything else that company ever tries to do.

You do NOT get to steal from me, and you do NOT get to lie to me about what I'm paying for.  In any other line of business...what SOE and LA did to us would have landed them in court.  Getting a Sedan when you are paying for a Ferrari is no laughing matter.

Hmmm....

Sans the high level cap I'd suggest Guild Wars.  With the level cap in consideration, there isn't much to offer.  The problem is that games (MMO of any sort) with high graphic values are NOT free to play.  Of those, most do not also sport a high level cap.

So you are simply going to have to let go of some of your wants in this case.  Perhaps try Anarchy when it gets its graphical revamp soon.  They will still have a Free to play option, and if you later decide you could pay to play.

Other than this, you are just out of luck.  The prettiest free game out there is still probably Guild Wars, and it has plenty of story behind it.  But the level cap is REALLY low because the game is based around PvP in the end.  As for Free MMO's....well.....Silkroad is pretty but the game is trash.  You essentially have to buy a gold ticket to be able to log in with any regularity so that cuts it out.  Shaiya is pretty quest heavy so far, but its level cap is only 50.  You do get to unlock harder modes of play though.

Sorry I can't be of more help.

I will do nothing.

Perhaps when LA and SOE go bottom up I will consider a dance and dine form of celebration, however.

Actually, I will do at least one thing.  I will keep my eyes open for the next Producer to pick up the IP for a new MMO.  But other than this, nothing.

Originally posted by AzurePrower

 

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Originally posted by Gishgeron
EVE has that kind of PvP.

If you don't like the "space" setting....then.....there isn't much out there with any real quality polish to compare with EVE.

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Why is it every time some one asks for a "hardcore" pvp mmo. Some EVE fan boi always has to jump in and claim their game to be superior. EVE's pvp is boring crap and not exciting or hardcore at all.

First of all, his criteria was FFA PvP with looting.  I suggested a game which has that, and in fact is based entirely (from the economy to the corps) around it.

Second, you bloody idiot, I don't play EVE.  I don't play it for EXACTLY that reason.  I am just not a fan of massive PvP penalties, frankly. 

So how about you remove the foot from your mouth and suggest something else instead of just being a tool.

Originally posted by lomiller

Originally posted by Gishgeron

 

Originally posted by Vincenz

People leaving WoW are just leaving...they aren't going to another MMO, because they never had a previous MMO.  They played it, they had fun, they're done now.

 

That logic is pretty silly.  Using that chain of thought...NO other MMO would have any players because when people left UO or EQ they would simply have quit the genre altogether.

 

If people liked WoW, you can bet they now have their eye on the genre.  I would expect many of them hear about other MMO's from guildmates and group members while playing WoW.  It would be ignorant to suggest they aren't looking into it.

 

It doesn’t follow that because EQ and UO players went to other games so will WoW players.  The simple fact is that WoW has 2-3 times as many former players then the total number of people who have tried all other subscription based MMO’s combined. There is no possible way WoW players can be moving to other games and expanding the MMO player base or we would have seen evidence by now. In fact just the opposite has happened, the number of people trying other MMO’s has plummeted since WoW launched.  

 

If people suggesting these people are waiting on WAR or AoC are correct then these games should launch with somewhere between 2-5 million players each.  That will not happen. They will launch with ~200K players and either go up slightly if the launch is successful or drop significantly if it isn’t.  

Not even WoW launched with 5 million players man.  They earned it, mostly, by making an MMO so successful that they won over the asian market.

Blizzard just re-wrote what is now the standard for this genre.  The lacking MMO population is more due to the sheer influx of MMO's over the last 4 years than anything else.  The fact remains that WoW is still the most easily accessible MMO out there.  To suggest that the current players won't play ANY other game is insane.  If another game is released that is JUST as accessible and offers an equal amount of attention and content then I stand by my opinion that Blizzard will have bolstered this genre very nicely.

The WoW forums are full of people keeping their eyes on new games.  The general and guild chats overwhelmed with players watching the new games coming up.  What I am suggesting is that, now more than ever, there are a vast amount of people watching the goings on of this genre.  Before WoW the only players were pooled from EQ and UO...and word of mouth was the only way to communicate anything new.  Now that gaming pool is 100X what it was, and I have no doubt that an accessible game will find at least a 300K+ launch, with a steady rise to a least a million players, now.

But you can bet that these players aren't just going to LEAVE WoW at the drop of a hat.  Just as people didn't leave EQ at the drop of a hat.  Those turn-overs must be earned, just as Blizzard did with its MMO.  I won't promise you that either AoC or WAR will accomplish this....but in the very least there is now an uprising demand split in the players of WoW.  Before, this genre was moving ahead by the PvE game....now we have a strict divide between Sandbox, Classic, PvP, and RPG elements regarding what each individual player wants a stronger focus on.

This divide will ensure that the market will have to expand.  Pop culture does not often destroy a concept, but instead make it available to the masses.  Every outlet of the entertainment industry has seen this.  Rap was not the massive force it is today some years ago.  Once Pop Culture embraced it, the desire for it grew and so did the available artist producing it.  I think we can safely say that more people listen to Rap now that did 10 years ago.  We can also say they didn't just hop off the genre bandwagon once the initial Pop realization occured.

I have no reason to assume it will happen here either.

Originally posted by Vincenz

 

 

 

Actually, no...that kind of logic is supported by all the numbers.  The FACT is, WoW has it's numbers because it's drawn a HUGE number of non-traditional PC gamers or MMO'ers.  What, 10 times Everquest at it's peak?  You really think suddenly 9 million more people decided to play MMO's or do you think that WoW was mainstream enough, simple enough to install, play, and enjoy, that the other 9 million said "what the hell".

 

Those people didn't go find a new MMO, those people said "I have to go to work again" or "I have to pay attention to my girlfriend again" or simply "I have been spending far too much time on a VIDEO GAME" and they moved on.

 

MOST people in the world have no need for the next best MMO, because they don't play them...the extra 9 million people drawn into WoW were drawn there as a one time deal, IMO, and won't be back for the next, best, thing.

  Those issues you describe have been common for ALL MMO's over the years.  MMO gamers are not all children, in fact a fat chunk of them are adults using the genre as a form of escapism from the grind of their real life.  WoW didn't magically create a playerbase out of the working man, it magically gave OTHER working men a taste of the genre in a way that would welcome them into it.  I'm not sure if you are aware of this, but real life was never the resistance factor in the equation.  The sheer time-dump old school MMOs required was.  All the average man needed was an MMO he could fit into his schedual.

  Now that the market has realized the financial potential of this so-called "Casual" market...you can bet they will appear to them.  You can also bet this market share is going to notice it, because they will still want a world to escape into now that burnout is starting to set in.

Originally posted by Warmaker

 

Originally posted by Burntvet

A good game sells itself.

A bad game, people will barely play for free( let alone pay for).

Sometimes, the truth is ugly, and the ugly truth is that SWG:NGE is and has been terrible.

The 250k or more cancellations say this quite clearly.

Honestly, there's only a small collection of us in this forum.  There's more out there... in other MMOs who will put their opinions of SWG if the subject comes up.  In other forums.  Or just hanging around with their buddies.

 

I know it happens in other MMOs.  I've participated in enough of them

Anyways, the NGE has festered since about Nov.2005.  If they're still blaming us Former Disgruntled Vets, even now into 2008 for their lack of numbers, then they have a problem.  Maybe they should remember WHY 200k-300k (which ever value you believe) left in the first place.

Thankfully it doesn't take more than ONE of us to speak up when the material presented is so powerful.

Plenty of MMO's have done things to irritate me, but none of them have committed an atrocity on such a level as this.  One so terrible that its story has been retold with the same fervor for several years.  That alone speaks volumes about it.  I certainly know that I couldn't recount my hunter nerfs in WoW with the same anger today as I felt when they happened.  Now I'd just laugh about it.  Nothing about NGE is funny at all.

Originally posted by Salvatoris

I really think the new Beast mastery system offers everything cool from CH and BE rolled together... and you can add it to any profession through the expertise system.  If you had old pets from being an elder CH... not only can you recreate those pet's from their DNA, they are still worth 40m+ each just as a stuffed pet with no DNA.  If you had a Rancor, you can make it in to either a fighting pet or a mount.  I think the new pet advancement system is more in-depth and intuitive than the old system.. the end result is still pretty satisfying. 

I was away from the game for about 18 months, and I have been back for about 2 now.  I spent all my gaming time in that year and a half trying to find a game to replace pre-cu SWG... and finally decided nothing is closer than the current SWG.  It really isn't as bad as it was right after NGE dropped.  While it is admittedly a pathetic shadow if it's former self, if your looking for either a sandbox or a sci-fi game,  it's still better than anything else out right now.... and it's still Star Wars.

I hate that I am defending this game, and I'm sure i said I'd never play it or any other SOE game again.... but I just got tired of punishing myself because I was mad at them.  I guess the bounds of my hypocracy remain undiscovered. ;)

I dunno about you, but I have other things I can do in my life if I can't find a game to play.  I have a guitar and my band I can go have fun with.  I'm sure my wife and I can do SOMETHING for fun.  I never once felt like I was punishing myself by not playing.  Even if the game was remotely fun, I know that the only reason I ever played SWG was for its open-ended sandbox style and, with that gone, it holds nothing for me anymore.

Worse, allowing myself to play this game for any reason OTHER than a rollback is essentially admitting to SOE that they can do whatever they want to their consumers and get away with it.  I'd rather just stare at the wall, but I don't expect everyone to share my particular motivations in this regard so don't take that the wrong way.  I certainly don't feel you deserve to be denied your fun with it.

I do feel that going back to it is essentially you handing them a free pass to treat you in any way they want to, however.  You've just admitted to them that you will accept it and likely take it again.

Originally posted by Arcken

What better way could you spend your short lifespan on this mortal coil then complaining day after day about a GAME. Thats right I said it, a GAME. Lets face it, there is nothing more important to accomplish in our existance than complain relentlessly about a GAME.

And, frankly, your even more pathetic for wasting precious time coming all the way out here to COMPLAIN about people complaining about a game.  By the measure of your logic, all complaining is a waste of time.  To which, I feel, I must add that without such feedback our world would not have things like the Better Business Bureau to provide information to the consumer, or worker, about the things they are getting involved in.

Face it, without us you have no one to tell you about actual problems out there.  I'd certainly love a world where everything was happy and swell....but thats not reality.  IN reality there are a lot of people who simply just don't have your interest in heart at all.  When that happens, you deserve to know about it.

Originally posted by Vincenz

People leaving WoW are just leaving...they aren't going to another MMO, because they never had a previous MMO.  They played it, they had fun, they're done now.

That logic is pretty silly.  Using that chain of thought...NO other MMO would have any players because when people left UO or EQ they would simply have quit the genre altogether.

If people liked WoW, you can bet they now have their eye on the genre.  I would expect many of them hear about other MMO's from guildmates and group members while playing WoW.  It would be ignorant to suggest they aren't looking into it.

Originally posted by Dracis

 

Originally posted by Gishgeron

 

Originally posted by Dracis

 

Originally posted by Gishgeron

I hope they continue to complain about us.

 

It shows that we have done exactly what we set out to do.

Actually quite a few have defended us old vets. I resubbed for a month to try it again, (yes, I know I am enabling SOE), and remembered why I dislike it, but I've been posting over there reminding those people that many, many people will never go back, or won't go back without a rollback or classic server.

 

The thing is, many people over there think that by bringing the old vets back, or by changing online reviews, or by SOE advertising, etc, etc all of the problems for SW:G would be solved. Unfortunately it is not that simple. The game in a very real sense is dying. While three or four servers still have a decent population, the rest are basically ghost towns. SOE still refuses to give people free server transfers, literally is making everything have to have a group now, and just continues to ignore the larger problems at hand.

You know, I wish that I had one chance to make a game as loved as the old SW:G was. While it was far from perfect and it would never, ever have WoW like subscriptions, it was still a great game and experience for a good deal of people. And that my friends is what making games is all about.

 

 

Which is exactly why we are so mad about it.

 

Alot of game developers have forgotten what making games is all about.  Supporting a company which is like that is essentially supporting the bleeding of the gaming community as a whole.  I prefer to instead demand better from these guys.  Not every game needs to have 10 million players to be good, and it is a vile and terrible thing to throw away something perfectly good because greed has blinded you into chasing the gaming dragon.

 

SOE cares nothing for gaming.  They care for money that is why they buy so many properties.  Not a single one of them outside the Everquest model have reached us in the masses.  Their business  model has been to produce low and sell high.  Its very sad.

I got into game development for just that reason and SOE is not the worst criminal out there, but they are the most blatant about it. Unfortunately us vets and the current players will have to continue to disagree on what version of the game is better.

 

To be honest, the fact its so blatant is what makes them the worst in my book.  At least the other greed mongers cover it up.  SOE looked us straight in the face and told us we were essentially stupid and needed them to educate us on what was fun.

Originally posted by njdevi66

 

Originally posted by hipiap

It's not just that they need to move on.

 

There is a lot of cool CONTENT that they are missing out on because they can't take a minute and give it a try.

99% of the People that played SW:G and left because of the CURB or NGE or whatever the reason was can afford to Blow 15 bucks to try this game now for 30 days or until they get bored with it.

2 new Jedi Crystals, New specials and procs, SEA's are back in stackable ways...

 

I will admit to being an Elder Ranger for Life....but after over 1100 days on my main server I am still having Fun with the game.

 

And I still catch a forum ban for telling Sony what I think.

 

Come back...its Fun again.

 

If its so much fun and the game is full of people, then why are you here trying to convince people to come back? Telling them to come back and that its fun, looks kinda desperate imo.  Every single one of you people who come here trying to spread your lies that the game are just desperate, if its go good, then play the game. You want to help the game and try to get it more subs, post your reviews on game sites, not in meaningless threads like this b/c you arent doing anything to help but look like you are desperate on getting people to play an empty game.

Im glad you still like to give Song hell for what they did, but just do yourself a favor and go play the game and leave those of us who hate the game alone. I am a former Master Creature Handler, i was a master 3 weeks after release and was master creature handler up until they destroyed my profession, so coming here and telling people like me to come back and that the game is fun is bullcrap, the game was fun for me when i was able to TAME babies and raise my pets, not cook them. If i wanted to do that, i would have went with BE when the game was released.

I had 22 pets that took me weeks and months to get, rare babies that took months to get... now look at them now.

 

I dont care what anyone says, they can come here and praise SOE and SWG that its the savior of all games, i will never forgive and never forget. So, you people are just wasting your breath coming here and trying to convince people like me on coming back, i know what the game is like, i have seen and played it... its crap, and it will remain crap till its shutdown.

CH's are the people I feel for the most, actually.  I rant about SWG plenty...but what I lost was nothing compared to what you did.  That was one of the most awesome class ideals I have ever seen.  SWG lost plenty of those in the NGE though....*sigh*.

Originally posted by Dracis

 

Originally posted by Gishgeron

I hope they continue to complain about us.

 

It shows that we have done exactly what we set out to do.

Actually quite a few have defended us old vets. I resubbed for a month to try it again, (yes, I know I am enabling SOE), and remembered why I dislike it, but I've been posting over there reminding those people that many, many people will never go back, or won't go back without a rollback or classic server.

 

The thing is, many people over there think that by bringing the old vets back, or by changing online reviews, or by SOE advertising, etc, etc all of the problems for SW:G would be solved. Unfortunately it is not that simple. The game in a very real sense is dying. While three or four servers still have a decent population, the rest are basically ghost towns. SOE still refuses to give people free server transfers, literally is making everything have to have a group now, and just continues to ignore the larger problems at hand.

You know, I wish that I had one chance to make a game as loved as the old SW:G was. While it was far from perfect and it would never, ever have WoW like subscriptions, it was still a great game and experience for a good deal of people. And that my friends is what making games is all about.

Which is exactly why we are so mad about it.

Alot of game developers have forgotten what making games is all about.  Supporting a company which is like that is essentially supporting the bleeding of the gaming community as a whole.  I prefer to instead demand better from these guys.  Not every game needs to have 10 million players to be good, and it is a vile and terrible thing to throw away something perfectly good because greed has blinded you into chasing the gaming dragon.

SOE cares nothing for gaming.  They care for money that is why they buy so many properties.  Not a single one of them outside the Everquest model have reached us in the masses.  Their business  model has been to produce low and sell high.  Its very sad.

Originally posted by SempaiEclipse

 

Originally posted by Orca

 

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Originally posted by METALDRAG0N

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Originally posted by Orca

 

PvE... Need say nemore?

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Yes because meost other MMO's have PvE too including EQ2

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I see just because you have many post on the forum, it doesn't sort these kind of replies away.

Yes, EQ2 is PvE only(mostly, with very inbalanced PvP). The reason why WoW > EQ2 sub-wise, is bcuz WoW has a very balanced Players VS Player environment(AKA PvP).

So no matter how much content you add to a game, if you don't have a basis for PvP, you will leave a huge playerbase behind.

PVP is better in EQ2..  ;)

 

 

No the reason WoW has more subs is because Blizzard big fanbase.. They are loyal as hell also.. They won't even try another MMO besides WoW unless it's made by Blizzard, lol.

Also WoW vs most MMO the devs doesn't add lot of content..lol

I naturally disagree with this.....because in no way has Blizzard made 10 Million Die Hards pre-WoW.  But for the sake of arguement......

If so, why is it do you think that their fans are so loyal?  I'll answer for you.  Because they are loyal to their fans.  Blizzard goes above and beyond the call of duty to make sure they do the best they can for their players.  Every other company goes only as far as they have to in order to bleed the walking wallet.  I'm not saying there aren't great MMO's out there, there are plenty good ones that do a great job.  IN fact, the guys behind City of Heros will always have my respect because they really did a great job with that game.  THey also did something good for the production community by releasing their engine public to give fledgling workers something to start with and get that experience under their belt.

For all of my personal issues with WoW....I cannot say one ill thing of Blizzard as a company.  They are one of the few last companies that actually care two bits about its consumer.