All Posts by Sovren1

At least haters in any respect are still talking about what they are hating on. I think there would be a bigger problem if no one was speaking about them.

Blizzard would be pissed if no one was talking about their game.

SOE would be even more pissed if no one was speaking about Vanguard cuz then no one would be playing it.

Well, it could be that you are growing out of the genre...or at least growing faster than this genre.

Gotta ask yourself, How long have MMO's been around? How much work goes into making one? How much money goes into making one? (A relatively good one at that).

The games that are still bopping around and the games that are upcoming do have common ground because they are a part of a genre. A leap will be made sometime but that sorta thing comes around ever so often. If you look at other genres of gaming I think you will find that not much has changed from year to year either. Shit, shooters are basically still the same monster, third person action games who began using "bullet time" after john woo movies and the Matrix that made it big; are still using it. RTS games still resemble each other. Sports games definitely are pretty much the same.

No other category thus far is as complex as an MMO world. It's a huge risk to make this type of video game. Too much money involved. Once progress is made in learning how to spend less on the big points of a game then I think innovation will come on a wide scale. It's either that or you will actually get a company who wants to take a risk to break the mold.

It's all about vision I guess.

This world of video gaming is still pretty young.

Well, I can say that I quit once before because it felt a little kiddie and was a bit boring for me. I gave it another shot to play a game that many of my friends and co-workers alike have fun playing. The more I play I find that it actually isn't bullshit when people say it's very polished. There are so many things to do in this game.

OP, you are so right in saying that in comparison to other stuff out there. Sure there are some good ones, but the majority do so many things wrong whereas WoW does most of those things right.

I was thrown off by the pvp though because it seemed like:

1. it didn't matter much
2. Classes seemed unbalanced
3. Winning 1v1 in world pvp was about lvl and better gear

I have revamped my view on these. Since the pve is in my view way above what I expected that now I say it's not about what I want in the pvp aspect of a game. It's about how to get good with what is offered. My little personal goal is to never lose any fight. Classes are unbalanced if you let them be. The real challenge is to get good with the class you choose.
As for lvl, well...in any game that allows levels and open world pvp is gonna have ganking and such. Gear? Well, in pvp gear is a crutch. Doesn't make you good. Gives an edge but if your not geared you can rely on your fight style to pick up that slack.
Ok, so pvp still doesn't matter much and is really only personal. Maybe they could add something to allow you to tally who you have killed name wise and post it on some sort of board.

I hear so many bash BG's also. Why? I don't get it. It's exactly what you find in any shooter. Maybe how they handled it level wise is kinda jacked, but it has wsg for capture the flag, arathi and alterac , eots for point capping like in bf2 and such.

Overall I think it maintains its subs and from what I hear is still gaining numbers because as an all around product it's very good in comparison to what is out there now.

In hindsight, there really haven't been that many good MMO's out ever.
For those that say that the pvp is terrible, well on one hand you're right. On the other...in comparison to what exactly, I can probably count on my hand how many good PvP MMo's there have ever been in creation. This genre is still very young. Shit, video gaming is still very young.

I do have high hopes for upcoming games that are pvp focused and are doing it in ways that us as players kinda envisioned it. Maybe it will feel right. Maybe they will be better than what has been offered before. Time will tell.

I quit once about 2 years ago after playing a few characters up to the 30-40 range. Returned a few months back and can honestly say that day to day I feel different about the game. Some days I hate it, some days I have fun. Some days are actually both. I wish to quit on the days I hate and can't be happier with the game on the days it's fun.

Who knows what I'll do next. I may move on completely when something about another game jumps out to me. As it stands right now...I play 2-3 MMO's but have been playing wow more lately.

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Originally posted by Torak
Well, MMOs are going to change within the next 5 years or so. The days of games like Vanguard are done. (thank goodness) Tradional MMOers are probably not going to like where they are heading but thats the way of things. They are are not going to just "disappear" if that is what you are getting at.
MMO gaming has not made the impact it could have for a a few basic reasons. System requirements, Fees, quality, and fun/entertainment value.
Keep in mind online gameing is just taking off. MMOs have not been able to capitalize on that momentum. (at least here in the west)
Gaming isn't in its "prime" yet...it's just starting to really make an impact on the entertainment industry

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Ya, I agree...gaming is just getting started. I foresee the greatest MMO ever will eventually come to fruition, it will be called: REAL LIFE. Eh, look for it in stores like 50 years from now. (it's competitor will be called....shhhhh, the Matrix.)

Yeah, as far as the pvp goes; Guild Wars is exactly what it means...GvG. That's the high end of it. Well, heroes ascent also. E-sport. All other pvp is in my opinion there to help you fine tune or try out new builds. Especially random arenas.

Guild Wars gear based? Not really a huge problem in this game as all max stuff is easily obtainable. Good looking max stuff is purely there for your vanity. Having little cash can get you a wep that is just as good as the rarest weapon in the game. Basic armor has the same stats as 15k armor. 15k is just for looks.

Now depending on what you will allow yourself to strive for in this game is exactly how much fun you will have. Learn more about the series through sites, talk and exploration.

I found myself in a different situation...I did alot in guild wars, but it finally got old...I was rare/weapon and title hunting ...when something just said that this shit matters not. So I went back to WoW to catch a draft of a slightly deeper experience. I did buy EotN though to take advantage of the Hall of Monuments because I am so looking forward to GW2.

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Originally posted by Reklaw

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Originally posted by Huntn

I just went to the Tabula Rasa forum and there are no posts visible there I guess because it recently got moved into Released Games? Anyway I came "this" close to buying it at Target yesterday but then I remembered the negative press it was getting here from some of the beta players so I'm probably gonna resist until a free trial comes along.
So retail Tabula Rasa players, thumbs up or down?
Thanks!

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Atm i'm very VERY casual playing TR not touched it this week due to little play time, but hey i hope you not going to buy or not buy a game due to what people say but due to you trying the game. Just imagine if people really would take the words of those who speak ill about games then my bet is none would actualy be playing any game as espeiclay on forums like this we all see that the people who don't like games always try to be louder, though i do my best to also be loud, people should be responsible enough to make up there own opinion but then i do advice to TRY the game, maybe wait for a trial or friends acces if you have or know someone personaly playing the game. Same goes if people speak the world of it , some might feel that way but that doesn't mean you would feel the same if you play it. All a gamer can do is TRY games them selfs, we have seen so many people taking words from people on forums that after they tried a game themselfs sometimes its allot more fun then the naysayers say and sometimes it might be a disappointment when trying hte game yourself.

If....so IF you would like some speak consider TR a single player game i feel you still get worth the play/pay if you buy and pay for one month sub if that is a possiblity and i bet that even if the game doesn't meet your expectation you still might be able to have fun for a month, just like most single player game though some seem to rush into those games aswell in 10/20/30 hours or so. For me PERSONALY i am a gamer and not always that worried if i think a game is cool to play i buy it, i bought LOTRO but havnt installed my retail version did play beta and did try hte 7day trial but ...meh....i just like sci-fi allot more and well even thought LTRO has in many way's more depth as in crafting things i still enjoye (d) TR allot more, and will so sunday again.

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I couldn't have said it better myself. I can say that I like video games. I guess one who plays them often can be considered a gamer. So maybe I'm a gamer. The type of gamer who realizes that when it comes down to it; I want to in the end have tried them all. Too bad I can't afford it. I want to play every game ever made at least once. Console games, Hand held games, pc games. The ones that stick out I'll remember well. The ones that don't are forgotten.

Everyones experience in any given game is different. If you rely on the word of others in this medium; you'll undoubtedly miss out on some really good games.

THIS JUST IN...JUST kidding.

I honestly think KotoR 3 is the game being worked on and that maybe all Bioware is doing is lending them their obviously valuable engine.

My predictions for Biowares upcoming MMO are one of the following three; Mass Effect, Jade Empire and ...

G I JOE ONLINE. BLAAHH BLAHHH AMERICAN HEROOOO! G.I. JOEEEEEEE!
Because knowing is half the battle.

Decline is something NO game can escape.

My views on this one changes from day to day. Some days I hate it, some days I really enjoy it. The server I spend my time on doesn't seem at all like no one is there. Everyone playing seems to be having a good time. Isn't that what really matters?

Fanboiz and elitist seem to forget that while they are arguing back and forth as to why this game is the greatest or why this game is the bane of the MMO community that there are players having a pretty good not worrying about that crap.

Same goes for any other medium.

All and all...the differences between MMO's to me are rather cosmetic. A different look, a few different options. At the heart each is pretty much the same. Maybe that's why it's a genre.

The way people bash WoW here on this site is pretty funny to me actually. Why? Because many refer to WoW players like they don't play any other MMO's. Like they are dumb gamers. Or like because they play they must be new to MMO's and supposedly don't know any better. Well, players I know have been around since MuDDs. Play pen and papers. Play alternate games.
WoW players aren't any different than gamers who play other MMO's or video games for that matter.

P.S. For the multitudes of those who speak about innovation, what do you really want out of an MMO beyond what everyone seems to be doing now? I really don't think getting larger than a baby step is probable. Think I'm gonna start a thread.

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Originally posted by darquenblade

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Originally posted by Sovren1

How can it translate to an MMO? Guild Wars told a decent story, why couldn't it be done in other MMO's?

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And herein lies the game's biggest challenge. I firmly believe that the more story-driven content you put in an MMO, the more persistent-world attributes need to be taken out to compensate. You provide an excellent example of this in mentioning Guild Wars.
Guild Wars has a much more involving story than most MMOs, but it is also consistently argued whether GW can actually be called an MMO due to the overabundance of instancing the game uses.
I feel BioWare's game will be similar. Heavy on story, but also heavy on instancing to the point that countless flamewars will ensue regarding it's validity as an MMO. However, it's pretty much the only way to do it.

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I think guild wars catches that flak mainly due to the world zones being instanced, not the missions..which aren't any different than dungeons that hold lore in any other MMO. Mission's were are very good way of telling a story. Pieced together well I thought.

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Originally posted by sukochie
Ive said this before and ill say it again. How can you be sure its even going to be kotor, and not just a completely new star wars universe. The fact of the matter is you can't. First kotor would be hard to turn into a mmo, but if they did this the game play would be allot different from the single player games. I'm almost 60% sure that its not going to be kotor but a completely new star wars mmo.

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If it were KotoR, I think we all know that it won't be played like the single player. I will speak for myself and not others...what appealed to me most about KotoR wasn't the gameplay or game mechanics. It was the age, the period, the story. That is what I think is or should be the foundation of any MMO. That is what I think Bioware has been good at...story telling. How can it translate to an MMO? Guild Wars told a decent story, why couldn't it be done in other MMO's?

My personal opinion is this: You can easily tell a great and very personal story through instances...and have a large and persistent world full of lore to back this up. (which incidentally is how I think they will do their MMO)

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Originally posted by Arndur
Man yall act like bioware had no control when EA bought them. Im sure almost everything was in Biowares favor that if the mmo is LA publsihed and Bioware developed then really EA doesnt have that much control. And dont say it will be EA published immposible if it is SW then LA wouldnt let that happen.

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I totally agree here. I just can't see LA and EA splitting the profits on this one. These two companies seem to me to be very aggressive in that manner. **blanket statement** EA doesn't play well with others...til they buy them and I don't think LA is selling.

Just a side note Hux...while I won't be playing an MMO on a console, Keyboards and mice:

1. can be used on some consoles going back to Dreamcast.
2. don't need to be used a la Final Fantasy.

I even remember back in 99 hooking my dreamcast up to my monitor.

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Originally posted by huxflux2004

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Originally posted by Sovren1

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Lets see...lets put the Warcraft games up against madden or something. You may say it's not the same thing, well it is when Bioware has yet to put out a game to directly compete with the WoW monster. Thus obviously not having the same type of numbers. If we are talking before WoW, well then I think they do alright in comparison.

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You are comparing the best products in the history of video games (diablo, starcraft, warcraft) with what? nwn and kotor? I agree that both were nice games, but nowhere near the masterpieces of blizzard. Thousands of ppl are still playing sc on battlenet and also play warcraft (dotta) and starcraft competively. And competitions are where the ppl and the moniez are. You just cant compare this to Bioware, no matter how respectable company it is (was).
as for nwn2, you are right. I dont have any numbers. but i played online nwn for years. i didnt like nwn2. my friends and the player and worldbuilder communities i participated in have the same opinion. we might be wrong though. maybe nwn2 shifted its audience to a different crowd. what i am sure about, is that it is not very popular amongst the nwn1 fans.

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I'm not comparing anything...you are. If you want to compare numbers there are a multitude of games that you can do this with. Is it right though? Tally up how many copies of any warcraft game to date have been sold(exclude wow of course). And compare it to numbers sold of the bioware lineup. The fact that people still play means nothing in this. Those are enthusiasts who will buy these games till they aren't published anymore. I think you find that they can be compared pretty evenly.

If you do want to compare between competitive games then try comparing Warcraft to any other popular game out there that is still being played. How about EA's battlefield series, or counterstrike, or halo, or madden (who are all still being played pretty competitively which actually means nothing)? Blizzard made RTS; Bioware makes RPG'S. It's all apple and oranges.

So, when you take the standpoint of even throwing these two companies into a throw down (which is what you have done when you say "which doesn't compare to Blizzard's numbers"), you have to realize that these are really two different types of companies focused on very different things and that they both have huge fan bases.

My example could be something like...ooh, alot of folks still love and play Battelfield 2 (it's still top 5 games played on the old x-fire regularly which may be some sort of indication). Now what if they chose to add some lore and make it a MMOFPS? Would you then compare what blizzard has done pre-WoW to what EA has done or even EA has done with the Battelfield series?

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Originally posted by huxflux2004

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Originally posted by KatanAlpha

LMAO, the whole point of the argument is that Bioware did not develop NW2 Obsidian did. So while yes they did give them an engine and check in every once in awhile. It wasn't an in-house game so you can't fault Bioware for NW2 for being a turd. As far as Bioware not having the resources to create a quality MMO their first time out. Haven't they been down in AUstin since 2005 gearing up to do just that, and haven't a whole shit load of developers from SOE (mainly SWG pre-cu) dropped SOE like a bad habit to go work for Bioware. Let me ask you this........what MMO did blizzard publish before WoW?

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I was expecting you would ask that one . And it is a very correct question. The fact is that WoW based its success on Blizzards huge playerbase. Starcraft, Warcraft and Diablo had sold millions of copies and had created a massive fun club, ppl that would buy Blizzards next title no matter what. Bioware has nothing in common with Blizzard in that aspect. Actually they lost a big portion of their fans (whose numbers cannot be compared with Blizzards) with the way they managed NWN2. Blizzard made nice games and sticked to them. Its branding strategy paid off when WoW was released. Bioware on the other hand played a stupid corporate trick with its best title.

If the exact same game (wow) was developed from another company, with another name at the same year, it would struggle for subscribers.

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Don't you just love when people spew a sentence like "Actually they lost a big portion of their fans (whose numbers cannot be compared with Blizzards) with the way they managed NWN2"?

First and foremost please don't speak about large portions of their fans being lost. We know you don't really know that and this statement was probably used to beef your view up. If you are basing it on people you know, general talk or articles you've read then you may want talk about these particular instances instead of claiming to speak for supposed large portions of their fan base. I can speak from my particular discussions or talking about games, I have never really heard anything bad being said about anything Bioware has done to date. (Besides signing up to play cousin to EA).

As far as games who use their engine, well...many do. Can't fault Bioware for what other gaming co's do with their engine.

Hmm, not having the resources to create an MMO? (the post you're replying to)...um it's a well known fact that EA just bought Bioware for 800mil +. They have quite a few former designers from successful MMO's. If I recall (don't quote me on this cause I may be wrong) Blizzard dumped 40 mil into wow at start-launch.

Hmm, "whose numbers can't be compared to blizzards". Well, ya know...you gotta start somewhere. I will say that their games can be put up against Blizzards pre WoW lineup. Not genre wise, but numbers sold. I honestly have this idea in my head that when I think the best game to ever hit stores under a Star Wars name was KotoR and that I can't be alone in this.

Then again, If we are going to compare numbers sold, (which is what you are doing because Bioware has yet to release an MMO to compete against what Blizzard is doing), can we say the same thing for like Halo 3 which holds the record for most games sold in a day at like 2.4mil. Or how about compare Blizzard sales to EA's and the multitude of gaming houses they own, not to mention the games they put out themselves creation wise.

Lets see...lets put the Warcraft games up against ma