All Posts by Sovren1

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Originally posted by Mimzel
Reading through the replies so far, I get the impression that alot of people cling to the way things work today. For instance, it is a little narrow minded to point out technical hinders like "what if 101 player raid fails to take down the mob, and then the small raid force coming in after them have to face a boss that has scaled to the 101 sized raid". I dont see a problem here as I imagine there are several ways this can be prevented, like having the boss rescale every few minutes.
Someone else mentioned the ultimate problem for tradeskills in many MMO's, which is the value of tradeskilled items vs raid loot. The way I see it, this is directly connected with the fact that you have a set of items that doesnt involve tradeskills at all, and then you have the (comparatively) sub-par crafted items. I could easily see this fixed by having the best items ALWAYS need to be crafted (with rare boss loot items as ingredients). I never understood why this is not always the case in present day MMO's, or why they have crafting at all the way it is now.
Someone else was so bold as to say there will ALWAYS be a need for instancing to prevent clogging in the serverside systems. It might be because I am a social worker, but I hardly ever use the words always or never. Computer technology is advancing so rapidly I have no problem seeing technical limitations being radically different a few years from now. However, at present day, I can see your point though.
As I mentioned in my first post, I feel that it is somewhat schizofrenic to use instancing in a Massively Multiplayer Online Game; trying to isolate the single player from the rest of the multiplayer world... As a few already mentioned, there is both elements of competition and co-operation in a MMO, but for me the co-operation part is at the core of the MMO nature and what is revolutionairy and qualitively different from single player games.
This is why I hope to see a fresh take on the age old dilemma of MMO developers - Instancing or Spawn Camping? I'll take something new, please!

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I do agree kinda with the bit about crafted items, they should be on par with what is dropped. Problem there is that crafted items are usually readily available while killing bosses for said items isn't a sure thing. Work for it.

You know what throws me off, NPC crafters. Why are they even in most games? You usually don't use their items because they are pretty much the worst in the game.

I think I'm being very practical when I say that instancing is a good thing in that you don't have to play the waiting game beyond getting a group. Alot of times it takes up a huge chunk of time just waiting to get one, couple that with trying to out camp a guild that has been there all day and could be twice as large as your group, to say likely..no is being a bit naive(not you, the poster above you). Camping world bosses is a bit hard to do now in some of these games.

I mean really, what would having no instances support? More time sinks? Instancing is always in addition to the what is going on in the game world. It's an option. In a lot of these games you could conceivably play the game without doing any.

It all boils down to time. Instanced anything imo opinion just adds to what can be done in a game.

I personally think innovation should be more in the area of story telling.

First and foremost...if it's an Star Wars MMO, I may actually be like Meh. Why? Cause I'd rather see them come up with their own universe. I'm sure that universe could be just as complex and great as anything in SW. Sure SW what many want to be done right, but it's not the only cookie in the jar.

Secondly...I had no idea Bioware was grabbed up by EA. EA is the devil. LOL. As as whole they may produce more games than anyone, which also means that they produce more shitty games than anyone. Also, I'm not fond of EA's business practices concerning competition. Mainly this revolves around how they tried to destroy 2k sports from sega by:

Getting an exclusive deal with the NFL....meaning that now no one else can get a deal with them using the logos, teams, and player names. This contract doesn't end for years. Madden is the only NFL game now. They tried to do the same thing with the NBA, but failed. Other sports as well.
When this happened ESPN didn't renew their contract with 2k and went with EA.

Since this I have been weary of how EA sees the gaming culture. They are like this living monolith that enjoys towering over everyone thinking they can do what ever they want, including putting out crappy games. Needless to say I have played very few EA games in the past ten years.

As great as Bioware is and or has been...lets just hope they don't take on some of the practices of their parent company. Let's hope the pressure from said company is nil also.

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Originally posted by GormandY
Chuck Norris MMO will rule all, AoC or WAR or WoW or ANY other game is no match for it.

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"One Chuck to rule them all!" Lord of the Lames.

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Originally posted by uncus
To the OP: The actual problem with loot is not that it is finite, but that it is infinite! While loot from one MOB is finite [and should be], since MOBs respawn, loot is effectively infinite. This is what usually kills crafting/economies in games. Since crafting supplies are infinite, crafted items have no value. Since supply is infinite, in game economies face constant inflation. Making crafted items better than dropped items and item decay are sometimes used to counter this inflation, but are very difficult to balance.

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I agree.

I agree with most of the post here as to why many MMO's aren't any good. That doesn't mean they are failures though by MMO standards. WoW isn't the standard....in terms of numbers it's an exception. Quite honestly I'm pretty bored of WoW. It's not what I want in a game...any game.

The one huge thing I think that make the majority of MMO's I've played not really any good is the fact that MY connection or immersion to the world is at a fraction of what it should be. What do I mean...well, QUESTING SUXX! Grinding also.

I know questing should be a very good deal in theory, but if every quest I do has absolutely no impact on my memory, why would I ever care about a particular quest beyond getting my reward. I see quest as being a chance to do some really re memorable things. This just isn't the case. It seems that most are completely forgettable which makes the connection to any viable story non existent.

One MMO comes to mind that have at least taken a stab at this sorta thing, Guild Wars (I guess many say it's not an MMO, but call it a CORPG, LOL...break it down and it's the same shit. SEMANTICS!) No matter what you did in that game you still had a goal in a story which was to basically complete it. May not have remembered each quest, but I do remember the overall story which made me actually care about what I was doing. It's that attachment MMO's as a whole lack and I don't think enough people recognize that.

*EDIT* I would also like to add that because of the low cap in Guild Wars it made me kinda care about my character less. But as I said...I did care about the world and the overall story. Really memorable.

I don't even want to talk about GRINDING, AHHHHHHHHHHH!

So, couple an unpolished game with a lack luster vision, jumbled story (wow has one of the worst I've seen, I'm kinda only playing because friends are/ coworkers are and I am intent on raising 5 characters to 70), and crappy pvp...what do you get? For the most part you get hot garbage that really isn't worth the time in the long run. Am I the only one that feels this way?

Ok, man....with threads like these, many don't sound like gamers at all. Sounds more like fanboi politics. WASN'T THERE EVER A TIME WHEN YOU WANTED TO PLAY EVERYGAME EVER MADE. I know as a self proclaimed gamer that I am this way. While I may not be able to afford it and have probably missed out on some very good games...I am still going to try.

It's not boxing, or a what if comic. The illusionary battles are for the birds. If your excited about a game fine, but you probably shouldn't bash other similar games at all especially if you haven't tried them at all.

As Far as what type of people play WoW and or will be moving to what game in the future....lol. Like a WoW player is that much different than your elitist ass. I play WoW, so what? I am looking forward to AoC, so what?
I play Guild Wars, so what? I play L2, so what? I play EQ2, so what?
I got 3 computers, 3 consoles in my home and a plethora of video games. Why? Cause I like all that video games have to offer.

So I may not stick around a particular game for long, that would just have to be a lost of interest type thing. But to say who or what type of player is going to be moving where is so blanket. Try speaking for yourself and where YOU will be going next. Stop with the presumed generalizations.

I agree. You will always get more bang for your buck if your seek out individual parts yourself.

Take most of the top end computers made by Alienware/Dell, HP and others and subtract about 3/4 of the cost and that is basically what you would spend on a system if you did it yourself. Alienware built it's rep on the backs of dumb ass rich folks who could care less about how much they spend. I actually only give them alot of credit in the laptop area.

Lol...Dells XPS is upwards of 5,000 dollars. For what? Everything it has can be bought for considerably less.

WWW.newegg.com is probably the most reliable source for parts on the web. Fantastic customer service and darn fast when it comes to delivery.

I agree with waiting until the last possible moment before buying a graphix card. If you have the budget, then you may want to find out when the NEXT LATEST and GREATEST is due out and go ahead and wait for it.

As everything is pretty much plug and play now...putting a comp together is extremely easy. You really only need a few components.

1. Processor
2. Motherboard
3. Memory
4. Hard drive
5. Optical Drive ie: DVD player, Cd player...
6. Power supply
7. Monitor
8. Keyboard and mouse
9. Graphics card
10. An operating system

Beyond that you can grab other doodads such as Speakers, Headphones, Card readers, printers, web cams, game controllers, lights, fans, heat sinks...etc etc.

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Originally posted by Feyshtey

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Originally posted by Sovren1

OOHHHHHH, how about Vivendi vs Sony (as a whole)...Sony wins right? 70billion is very god of godlike. Empire indeed compared to strongly built huts around the world.

Then again, Vivendi and NBC is owned by a very large EMPIRE... General Electric.

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GE doesn't actually own Vivendi or Universal (yet). They have a partnership. But comparing GE to Sony would be a much more valid comparison than comparing Sony to Blizzard. Sony and GE are both parent companies. Sony would lose by a landslide in that comparison too.

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Ok, your right...Vivendi Universal media and NBC partnered to make NBC Universal. This partnership is 80% GE while the remaining 20% is Vivendi as it is it's own company.

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Originally posted by Feyshtey

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Originally posted by Thillian

Now seriously, who thinks the yearly revenues for a game producing companies are based only on number of subscribers? SoE has expected 2007 revenue 7.6$ bilions. Blizzard has 1.8$ You are stating your assumptions without checking first relevant facts.
Edit: Yes Vivendi has 7.1$, but lets better not see Sony yearly revenues then (50-70$) don't force me to check it preciesly please.

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Sorry I'm coming back into the conversation so late, but....

When the MMO production costs are in the $20-40 million range, then for most studios box sales are a means to offset your initial costs… hopefully. In order to recoup the costs of a $30million production cycle, you have to sell 600,000 units at $50. Selling 9million units is certainly nice. It’s a huge profit. But after costs to produce the boxes it’s not nearly as pleasant as having those 9million people pay you $15 a month for half a year or more. I’d love to hear some (substantiated) numbers on the profit margin for both the box sale, and the sub cost. My first guess would be 25% for the box, and 80%+ for the sub.

Blizzard has 3000 employees. The vast bulk of those (2000?) are IT and support for wow. 2000 people at $25/hour (very generous for phone support and basic IT personell, who are probably largely in India making $6/hour) is about $8million/month. 9million subs at $15 is $135million/month, which puts the profit margin at 94% before other costs. (I might actually be wrong, and Bliz has more like 2000 people. I can’t remember for sure. But that being the case, the profit margin would be even bigger.)

Now seriously, who thinks that an MMO company really gives a crap about box sales compared to the profit margin of subscriptions over time.

The numbers you have provided sound like complete BS to me. So yes, I would like you to prove them.
At $7.6billion, here’s what SOE would have to produce:
150million MMO units sold at $50 each
-or-
41million subscribers at $15/month (for a full year)
-or-
Some combination of the two
Frankly, there’s very little possibility that SOE has accomplished any combination of the two in their history, let alone in a single year.

According to this article (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/11/business/worldbusiness/11sony.html)
at the New York Times from June of 2007, SOE enjoys “…revenue in the $150 million range … by creating and publishing a variety of subscription-based online computer games.” This is certainly slightly different than your suggested $7.6Billion revenue. Be aware that Sony Computer Entertainment owns Playstion and the console games divisions. Not SOE.

Sony Corporation as a whole earned $70.303Billon in revenue. (http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/CorporateInfo/qfhh7c000000lpn1.html). You’ll be hard pressed to convince anyone that a company that makes computers, monitors, televisions, cell phones, test equipment, home theater equipment, cameras, owns BlueRay and Playstation, produces 150+ television series per year totaling 10’s of 1000’s of episodes, makes dozens of movies, and 100 other things, earns 10% of it’s income from EQ, EQII and SWG (the only real breadwinners it has in the MMO market)… It’s a profitable business for them. But its not even remotely close to being a cornerstone of the Sony empire.

It would be easy to say with conviction that Sony Corporation is a behemoth compared to Blizzard. It would be equally easy to state that Disney Corporation (including Disneyland, Disneyworld, ABC, ESPN, etc) is a behemoth compared to Dreamworks (a subsidiary of Viacom). It’s an invalid comparison. But it is not valid at all to say that Sony Online Entertainment is a behemoth compared to Blizzard. Blizzard (a division of Vivendi), however, earns vastly more revenue than Sony Online Entertainment, and it services vastly more clients in the process. That is a valid comparison.

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Then again, Vivendi and NBC is owned by a what Forbes calls the fourth largest company in the world... General Electric. Now that's an Empire. Sony comes in at 167th place. Even Vivendi on that list is at 155.

So true! I like the amusement park/ console gaming one. Quest are so bland it's ridiculous and the console one is just funny.

I honestly believe that more often than not that it's the graphics in any given game that holds your attention at first. Actual gameplay then takes you the rest of the way.

Can't speak for others, but for me...I can't move backwards graphics wise. If I do...it's more for novelty or even nostalgia.

Off topic: I know what should be more important in an MMO, story telling.
Quests in MMO's piss me off because they are for the most part...forgettable. Now, couple that with bad graphics and I got a game that I will literally take a dump on and throw it out my car window onto the front doors at a radio station so that when they find it....they may spread the word to the masses that this game is literally shitty.

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Originally posted by Secrom

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Originally posted by Sovren1

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Originally posted by JohnnyMotrin
I don't think GW has anything to worry about. It has a strong fanbase that is eagerly anticipating GW2, and as long as it stays f2p, they won't have to worry about losing people to the likes of AoC and WAR because people will play both.

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Yeah, guildwars won't lose it's core player base at all imo...and I think the bulk will then move on to GW2. I would also like to add that I don't think it's just the B2p then F2p aspect that keeps players playing this game. I think that the game can be very challenging at times. And Guild Wars has something no other game on the market has, a real story to connect with. It's very hard for me to forget any part of that game.

As I haven't played in about 2 months....(GWEN is collecting dust sadly), I will say that no matter what MMO I pay for...as long as guild wars is around, it will be my second MMO so to speak. The backup as many in my guild call it. I bounce around every few months. I kinda believe that if I and many of my guild mates do this...we can't be the only ones.

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I still believe it was the basic idea with (among other things) the "no subscription" model at the beginning, having GW along with a P2P MMO and pop in every now and then.

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off topic:
Your sig about "Ever wondered what a hardcore WoW player looks like" is funny as hell. Giving that game up soon. Probably go into Guildwars hardcore till I burn myself out again on it, or until something good comes out. Maybe I will try out Tabula Rasa next week.

I personally think that it will get enough numbers to support itself. Will it be number one? Who cares. Only the companies should imo when trying to earn cash. From the player perspective though....who gives a shit?

It will (and already does ) appeal to many people. If you don't like it...move on. If you don't give it a shot....move on. Having the most subscriptions only makes a game number one in earned money. Doesn't mean the game play short/long term is any good. "OH, BUT NUMBERS SPEAK VOLUMES"
Well, there was a time when everyone had slap bracelets too, doesn't mean they served a good purpose.

And Omg....I can't believe someone actually said that NCsoft can't compete with Blizzard. Blizzard has one MMO....who may do more when compared to a particular game, but NCsoft has many and right now leads the gaming world when it comes to MMO's.

Guild Wars alone has sold over 4mil copies who may have been created by Arenanet but runs under the NCsoft umbrella. L1 and L2 still are running. City of heroes/Villains is still going strong. Tabula Rasa I'm sure will do well (I may give it a go). And Aion will find it's place. I also have no doubt Guild Wars 2 will out do the first.

I also see big things in the future for this company gaming wise with it's new found creation in Carbine Studios which incidentally is as of right now made up of many of Blizzards WoW creators. It's a norm in the industry to move up and out, but it seems that when Blizzard guys leave...they go to NCsoft. The guys from Arenanet, now the guys behind this Carbine thingamajig. Alot of which were a huge chunk of brain power behind what Blizzard has done to date so I think NCsoft is in good hands.

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Originally posted by JohnnyMotrin
I don't think GW has anything to worry about. It has a strong fanbase that is eagerly anticipating GW2, and as long as it stays f2p, they won't have to worry about losing people to the likes of AoC and WAR because people will play both.

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Yeah, guildwars won't lose it's core player base at all imo...and I think the bulk will then move on to GW2. I would also like to add that I don't think it's just the B2p then F2p aspect that keeps players playing this game. I think that the game can be very challenging at times. And Guild Wars has something no other game on the market has, a real story to connect with. It's very hard for me to forget any part of that game.

As I haven't played in about 2 months....(GWEN is collecting dust sadly), I will say that no matter what MMO I pay for...as long as guild wars is around, it will be my second MMO so to speak. The backup as many in my guild call it. I bounce around every few months. I kinda believe that if I and many of my guild mates do this...we can't be the only ones.

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Originally posted by solarine

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Originally posted by Sovren1

Yeah, Lucas Arts just doesn't understand anything when it comes to gaming. They've only had 1 really awesome game to date...KotoR who incidentally was made by Bioware. They have had good games of which is giving them a boost as I really didn't think any of them were memorable, just imo...not great games. Even KotoR 2 wasn't as good as the first as it was made by another gaming co. who actually used what Bioware had done already code/structure wise.

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Reading stuff likes this actually sizzles my brain.
Lucasarts was one of the few game developing and publishing companies that can be credited with popularizing PC gaming. They have absolute classics under their hood - stuff like Full Throttle, Grim Fandango and the Monkey Island games are timeless and Maniac Mansion, Sam and Max Hit the Road and a couple of the Indiana Jones games are top notch, too. In fact, it's nigh impossible to talk about adventure gaming history without mentioning them quite a few times.
When it comes to other genres, they may not have as strong a record, but they're not limp, either: TIE Fighter is a huge classic in the space sim genre and Dark Forces was not a bad FPS at all.
They may have lost their touch in the last 10 years or so, but they are a huge part of PC gaming history. When you go through PC gaming history era-by-era, game-by-game, you can see how they've left their mark on multiple genres. Saying they have never performed well is just cruel.
Credit where credit is due, please.

P.S.: I hope Bioware's MMO will be a Forgotten Realms one, but I'm aware that's not a very high a probability.

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Well, let it sizzle your brain....I could care less, each game you mentioned were several out of maybe over a 100 games they have had their hand on. And the games you mentioned may have meant something to you...not I. If you want to credit them...fine....do so. But for every game you can quote as so-called popularizing PC gaming, (are you serious?) I can find plenty others that did it better. Then again...with you trying to praise them...I should just go and praise EA for the same reason. SOE for the same reason.

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Originally posted by alyndale

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Originally posted by powerpolk

What do you guys think?
Aion Beats WAR?

A lot of ppl like WAR, but if Aion is Advertised well enough , in the Official Release, it should OWN war... like a little puppy... :D

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To be very honest and frank here., it is way too early to tell. The way games are being held back and jocking for release position for 2008, Aion may not see the light of day until Q 1 or 2 2009.
Additionally, why does it matter how many play Game x or Game y? Enjoy the game that you have invested money and time. NOw, maybe this is advise coming from an adult here that understands that these games are not real, but an escape for a time away from th maddening real world. But, generally, I don't give 2 buckets of spit about who has the most subscriptions.
Just relax and enjoy the game you want to play and don't get suckered into an immature gaming discussion about which game is better.

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I agree totally. It seems to me that the discussion on this site is becoming more and more a waste of time. i feel this way because (made up on the spot) 80% of the post I read are either the elitist fanboi troll bashing a game, the self proclaimed know it all making outrageous comparisons. All and all, it's starting to get a bit repetitive with nearly every topic being the same crap. It's kinda like being at that party last week and told the same story like 50 times.

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Originally posted by Vandorian

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Originally posted by Synhell

No Aion will definetly not beat WAR in population. But Aion will beat WAR on the quality of players. WAR players = wow players. Ends there really

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QFT.

Alot of WoW players are quitting wow for WAR. Have yet to see anyone mention aion.
Personally I think war look way to childish. As it's PvP based it will most likely attract the PvP player base from WoW. Thoose who spend all day whining about nerfs on the forums etc.
Don't even think I will try the beta tbh.

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Lol...saying "alot of WoW players are quitting for WAR" is way too much of a blanket statement. Now, I don't doubt that you may know a few...but it can just a easy be said that alot of people who are quitting WoW...if sticking to the MMO genre will obviously be moving to equally hyped other games like AoC and Aion plus many many more.

Lol...it is MY view that the folks who play WoW are no different than the folks who play any other MMO on the market. To think differently imo your walking that fine line between elitist asshole and someone who generally doesn't like the game because it doesn't give them what they can/want to deal with.

The fact of the matter is your using your view of particular things you may have heard or read...then placing these small snippets on the backs of "ALOT" to juice your view up with numbers and can not or at least should not speak for anyone but yourself. My only proof of this is that many of my friends who are into MMO gaming know about both of these games. Want to try both of these games.

Now if I may take a glimpse into foresight, I personally believe both games will do rather well, and I could give a shit who pulls in better numbers. That is gonna be left up to actual fact and not what I think may happen....one will beat the other out, or not..or tie. We do know that...who cares about it till then?