All Posts by Douhk

Originally posted by Lustmord

Good superhero pvp should be like playing cops and robbers.

 

Villians commit crimes.

 

Heroes have to stop them.

That's pretty much what it's supposed to be... I don't see PvP making sense in a superhero game if there were no villains or no heroes.

I really do hope they add some sort of PvP in this game, even without the addition of villains to start, at least something with heroes. If they don't have villains to start they will have to add them eventually. Superhero games are different from other games in the sense that they are stories. You need the protagonist and antagonist.

EDIT: I agree with what Bladin said about world pvp... I would dislike that sort of playstyle in a superhero MMO, really doesn't fit the gamestyle whatsoever. Battlegrounds like in CoX would fit well... as long as they don't become ghost towns like with what happened in CoX. If the game isn't based off of ATs (which I'm pretty sure it won't be, as far as I know it will be partly skill based and partly class based) than battlegrounds should be much more successful.

Hmm, I'm surprised people don't really like the graphics. In my honest opinion I thought they were fantastic... I'm someone who prefers artistic over realistic in a video game... the only exception of this where I liked the realistic art style in a video game was AoC, and the only exception where I disliked the artistic style was (so far) WAR... the game's graphics actually look worse than WoW's with the pictures they've shown so far if you asked me.

I think what people don't understand is that they confuse artistic with being not detailed. The screenshots I've seen of this game so far look beyond compelling in design and detail. Maybe it's just me... I'm a graphic designer for a living so it's no surprise that I'd like this kind of art style in a video game.

It's my personal opinion that they keep or at least keep the core of this art style, but I could live with changes in the future. I just think it looks like a neat and necessary change in design of games from the past. No argument intended but it would be nice to see if someone could mention if this style could potentially be damaging to the game's mechanics in the future. From what I know about designing cel-shading is probably the smartest choice but I don't see it often in games, let alone MMORPGs.

Originally posted by redcap036

Originally posted by sepher

I'm probably behind in any news regarding the ability to play villains at launch, but last I heard it sounded sorta cemented that there'd be Hero only gameplay with the only PvP being some arena deal or somesuch.

There's a mentioning of Villain gameplay in a new 1up preview/interview from a few days ago though: http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3167585&p=4

The discourse dovetails naturally into City of Villains and whether Champions will let you play the bad guy right out of the box. Emmert responds with a "maybe," though the duo seems to think they're onto something special. "[In COH/COV], heroes were always more popular than villains," says Lewis, "but the hero and villain gameplay was pretty much the same. We think the villains' content was a lot better, and we found a lot of people playing villains simply because it was a new and better experience. But it's something we're thinking about in Champions: Is the gameplay experience the same for a hero and a villain? But that's part of our top-secret plan we're not talking about."

I sure hope they DO allow villains at launch, especially if they want to be seen as a company that's learned from some of City of Heroes shortcomings.

It wouldn't hurt if they evolved their ideas about PvP inclusion as well. Maybe they will  after the three heavyweights of PvP hit this year; AoC's border kingdoms, WAR's RvR, and if nothing else, WoW's world PvP.

I'd be satisfied with just the ability to play a villain though.

 

Maybe it won't be a push button A to be a Hero or press B to be a Villain, hopefully they might just make it that the player determine thru his actions, costume and style of name what they want to become and maybe moral's.

That would be pretty neat, but extensive. That's more for a single person RPG at this point... I don't think games at this point are ready for that much of a step.

Originally posted by belladauna

 

Originally posted by Wrymstrum

Honestly I'm pretty skeptical about including villains.  I think making COV was a big mistake, and if they would have focused on COH they could have a much better product.  CoV was basically a copy of COH with an evil theme.  Such a waste of resources. 

 

If an MMO has just one faction (i.e. heroes) then the developers have a lot more freedom to develop great pve content for that faction. 

 

But I suppose there could be creative ways to do villains that wouldn't detract from the pve content.  Maybe it would be something where after your hero hits the level cap you can unlock a villain for PVP and some specific villain content, but the main game would be hero PVE content.

 

I have to strongly disagree with your first sentiment that it was a mistake. COV was my first MMO, and I wouldn't have really cared to play them period if it wasn't for that game. I don't want to play a Hero, I have no interest in that. The fact you COULD play the bad guy was the atttraction to me. So, waste of resources I don't think so, I think they tapped into a well of new players because of it.

I will still play Champions online, but I will do it begrudgingly, as I would much rather play the dark side.

Agreed, although I agree and disagree with both sides of the argument to some extent. He's kind of right in the fact that if they built upon CoH rather than create the CoV expansion they could have really made some interesting progression. It would certainly build upon the PvE... but it would continue to lack PvP, a needed source for the game and a near constant complaint.

For PvP to honestly work there needs to at least be two factions. A faction of heroes and a faction of villians makes it perfect. Although in my opinion the PvP in that game was a complete failure, it would have been even worse if they didn't try to begin with.

Not only was it good for the PvP aspect, but it was good for, generally, just wanting to play a villain, and it did make sense for the game's first real expansion. Heroes need villians. Agreeing with what Bella said, in my opinion it was probably the best choice to go with CoV rather than simply expand upon CoH. It added great versatility to the game and, although I rarely played villains, it made the game a lot more fun.

What would really be neat in this game is if they actually had a world completely focused on the players if you catch my drift... what I mean is, the PvE is intertwined with the PvP. Like say, for example, your arch-nemesis described in this game is actually another player. The story would be combined within the two players battling one another... although I know not many people would prefer that, I just think that would be pretty neat in my book. Or perhaps if you played the game with friends than you could have a supergroup from the beginning and a story revolving around them... and of a super villain team trying to thwart their every action. But like I said, a good amount of people don't want to be involved in PvP of any sort so I could never see this working. That would be really cool, though

One thing that I do think everyone would agree on is more unique PvE stories. If we can make our characters look and act any way we can possibly imagine, can't we choose their stories? Say when creating your character, you get to choose a super-hero alliance to be guided over. You would recieve your missions from that certain group to the end and follow their specific story. It would make creating alts much less of a burden and more fun, and the game would feel much less tiresome... the only thing bad about this is much more work for the developers, and probably more work than fair to expect.

EDIT: to what I said earlier, for the issue of people prefering PvE or PvEvP, it would be cool in character creation that you could choose which sort of story you'd want and play one or the other. But that brings in the same problem that it would be extremely bothersome to create that much.

I'm running into the exact same problem you did with the popup with the wierd symbols and letterings popping up. How did you get past this?

I'm going to love this game if it's anything like the old CoX... I've been looking for a CoX replacement for over a year now, and this game in development (thank God by the same company) should without a doubt be my next MMO home for a while... if it delivers everything it says it will.

Originally posted by airborne519

Originally posted by Douhk

Very nice article... I do think it was smart that you posted it in AoC general OP because the article is basically concerning the launch of AoC.

I liked his way of thinking when it comes to AoC's release, what he stated is pretty much exactly my way of thinking when it comes to launching this game in it's current situation. Basically, there are many great MMO releases coming out in late 2008/early 2009 (I myself am anxiously awaiting Champions Online, being a hardcore CoX fan. I'm hoping the game will be exactly my tastes when it comes to MMORPGs). If you had the option to release ahead of Aion, TCoSB, WAR, and WoW's expansion, would you take it?

Of course, as we've all seen, AoC chose the decision to get some spotlight ahead of everyone else. The other side to this situation is that the game, in all honesty, is not finished. I used to be two-sided before I read this article; should FC have held back their release to finish the game next to WARs launch and create some spark for both games in a "vs." sort of state, or was it best to gain some foothold despite not having enough content? Now I can see that FCs decision was most likely the smartest decision, for the reason I should have realized; despite how good a game is, there will always be haters and nay-sayers.

The game wouldn't be in that much of a different situation as it is now if it was actually complete. I can imagine the frequent trollers on these forums would still find something to complain about and to make a fuss over... whether it be because they dislike the game's core mechanics, don't want their game to fail in popularity (I'm talking about you LOTRO fans), jealous of the game, simply want to make a ruckous, are awaiting another game to come out (I'm talking about you WAR and WoW fanbois) and/or any other nonsensical reason to either you or me.

The same thing is going to happen to WAR. There will be at least one flaw in it's launch. Unless it makes history and is the first ever MMO to launch without a single flaw (yes, LOTRO was close, but Turbine had it's flaws too), then people are going to make a ruckous out of that game too. FC will then have the higher grounds. Seeing as how they are masters of marketting manipulation, they will turn their flaws into AoC's favor. And the rabid AoC fanbois will help in their situation as well.

Interesting points, it's true that everyone has a horse in the race, and will try and sabotage the competition. I too am anxiously awaiting Champions.  The article sure raises some concerns about releasing a product that isn't quite done for an edge in the market.  I understand why, not sure if it's the right thing to do, but I'm not in that industry.

 

 

What exactly do you mean by "the right thing to do"? Do you mean morally or productively?

As I've already stated I made my reasons as to why I think it's the smartest thing productively. In my opinion it probably was the smartest decision, or at least will show it is the smartest decision by the release of all the other games when AoC's foothold is truly shown. Do I think it was the right thing to do morally? No, I don't. The sad thing though is that in business, it doesn't matter if it's the right thing to do. For me though, as a consumer, a company needs a good mix of being both moral and productive, while others might be one way or the other.

Although from a productive standpoint FC seems to be making all the right decisions, the reason I dislike FC is that they are a completely immoral company. The way I look at it, sometimes you have to sacrifice productivitiy for your customers... which they have not done once yet.

I'm hoping that Champions, on the other hand, will be run the "right" way... Cryptic and NCsoft made CoX a perfect game for me because it had that perfect mix of morality and productivity when producing and expanding the game. The only reason I left is simply because I got tired of the same old same old PvE, and a lack of PvP. I have some faith in NCsoft to make Champions a smash hit to me... not a "WoW killer", but an overall better game than any other on the market when it comes to my personal tastes as a gamer... more companies need to think like this but in reality the majority just want to be the next WoW.

Originally posted by Gishgeron

...and still managed to catch a brunch with Satan to discuss their next press release detailing how they are going to release ALL of the content they promised would be in the game already... 

That one made me lol. I can easily imagine Gaute having a brunch with Satan, offering the game's player's souls (he'd offer his own but he already sacrificed it to save AO in the past) to gain some help from demons to not only fix the content, but to eat the brains of said players to make them forget that the features were supposed to be in at launch to begin with.

Originally posted by skeaser 

...Of course, most of these companies wouldn't release anything early if the investors weren't pushing them. I know from reading articles from developers and programmers, these guys are major geeks who don't really care about pushing subscriptions, they're are just beyond stoked with how awesome the stuff the are creating is...

I really wish that was true. I really do.

Very nice article... I do think it was smart that you posted it in AoC general OP because the article is basically concerning the launch of AoC.

I liked his way of thinking when it comes to AoC's release, what he stated is pretty much exactly my way of thinking when it comes to launching this game in it's current situation. Basically, there are many great MMO releases coming out in late 2008/early 2009 (I myself am anxiously awaiting Champions Online, being a hardcore CoX fan. I'm hoping the game will be exactly my tastes when it comes to MMORPGs). If you had the option to release ahead of Aion, TCoSB, WAR, and WoW's expansion, would you take it?

Of course, as we've all seen, AoC chose the decision to get some spotlight ahead of everyone else. The other side to this situation is that the game, in all honesty, is not finished. I used to be two-sided before I read this article; should FC have held back their release to finish the game next to WARs launch and create some spark for both games in a "vs." sort of state, or was it best to gain some foothold despite not having enough content? Now I can see that FCs decision was most likely the smartest decision, for the reason I should have realized; despite how good a game is, there will always be haters and nay-sayers.

The game wouldn't be in that much of a different situation as it is now if it was actually complete. I can imagine the frequent trollers on these forums would still find something to complain about and to make a fuss over... whether it be because they dislike the game's core mechanics, don't want their game to fail in popularity (I'm talking about you LOTRO fans), jealous of the game, simply want to make a ruckous, are awaiting another game to come out (I'm talking about you WAR and WoW fanbois) and/or any other nonsensical reason to either you or me.

The same thing is going to happen to WAR. There will be at least one flaw in it's launch. Unless it makes history and is the first ever MMO to launch without a single flaw (yes, LOTRO was close, but Turbine had it's flaws too), then people are going to make a ruckous out of that game too. FC will then have the higher grounds. Seeing as how they are masters of marketting manipulation, they will turn their flaws into AoC's favor. And the rabid AoC fanbois will help in their situation as well.

Originally posted by alex-core

most genius idea!

stop reading troll forums, and start play the game.

 

what games didn't lack end-game in the start?

Atleast in lotro there whas nothing to do in end game in the start, and it changed.. so just give the game some time.

People aren't as mad over the fact that the game lacks end-game content at such an early stage.

People are mad at the fact that FC stated that the game was at least at enough of a complete stage to offer some content at the last levels of the game. The PvE is lacking greatly and we still don't even have any real PvP other than mini-games and ganking (as in, nothing is ranked and there is no rulesets).

Turbine was at least straight-forward, but with FC it's like a puzzle. That's one of my biggest concerns with this game. I'm not mad that there is no end-game content, I expected that from a newly released MMORPG. I'm mad at the way they conducted business by lying about end-game content.

Despite what people say on these forums I don't see FC failing... in fact, the way they are showing how they conduct business, their numbers will grow.

In any sort of company, the most important aspect is the ability to sell. FC have proven themselves in my mind to be the masters of marketting... no launch I have seen in my 4 years of MMOs has ever been able to be this successful (in their situation). Yes, more boxes have been sold with other games the past 4 years. But those games were actually decent at launch... for FC to actually be able to sell AoC for 700k in it's first month when it wasn't even finished is outstanding to me. The game is not groundbreaking. It's not "steak" as Godager words it. It's sadly ordinary, and they've made it off to be something out of this world, when really as is it is nothing special. They've been very intelligent in the way they conducted business... untrustworthy, but intelligent, so I can give them that. They are a smart company... but deceitful.

I don't think I'll ever buy this game. This company has shown their true colors vibrantly. I don't want a game run by a company that shows that they will do whatever is possible to get the most money... and the launch hasn't just proven this to me. It's the constant changes that they're slowly making to the game and the way they've been talking about their game. I really do want to love this game but FC keeps making me want to wait for WAR... but in all honesty, I could easily see WAR in the same situation at launch.

I'm about to give up on MMORPGs altogether... I don't think we'll ever see a company that is concerned with customer satisfaction. All I'd want is at least some honesty with it's customers. Sacrifice at least a small amount of your possible profit for the sake of your customers, I beg you FC! Stop comparing your game as the Steak and Wine of MMORPGs! Actually fix the game, give us some feedback (that isn't full of @#$% and obvious lies to those of us that aren't sheep). Feel free to say "We hope that we can eventually fix the game to become the Steak and Wine of MMORPGs", instead of being self-indulgent and pretending that features you promised at launch are actually updates you'll be adding in the future to your already "godly" game!

We're not as stupid as you think, FC. If they continue down this path then I don't think I'll buy  AoC or any other game they crap out in the future. /end rant

Originally posted by Grunties

Brokeback Barbarians

that one made me chuckle lol.

I think it should be called Age of Conan: The Trailer (real game coming soon! We promise!)

wow, is this serious? I thought tits and gore was this game's main selling point earlier last year and they're toning it down? I wouldn't think they'd do that. Seems like a bad move on their part, especially at a time like this. Tits and gore don't interest me to an extent, but when you don't have DX10, siege warfare, working spellweaving, lack of lvl 50 content, but then...

no boobies when they promised boobies? That's it, I demand boobies now.

Originally posted by TheSheikh

I am going to be creative and make another AoC - Food comparison.

Say you go to the supermarket and want to buy some waffles, yes waffles..... and some syrup. You see a newly opened store with a big sign that says "We have Waffles! Pancakes! Syrup! Bagles! and Pie!"

To your disappointment when you got closer and went into the market they only had Bagles, Pancakes and Pie. Come to find out they had planned on getting some waffles but they didn't have them.

So what would any normal person do?

Go look for another store to buy some waffles, because you want waffles..... not pancakes.

 

Players bought the game for a sole purpose and when they learned that aspect of the game was non-existant or lacking, rather than stand around waiting for something to happen they moved on to another store to get some waffles.... and maybe some syrup.

I like that food analogy, fits well, at least when I read it. Pretty much accurate thinking of the gaming community. FC promised a lot in their game that wasn't in... so naturally, people are going to look someplace else that offers these things that FC clearly does not (even though they say they do, they promise!).

From what I've seen and the little I've played, I'm liking the game alot. But it's annoying to see a company repeating obvious blunders that they haven't learned from in the past (AO). Didn't they realize hands-on that it's more hurtful in the long run to give false promises...?

Expect one by WAR's release. I could see AoC strategically releasing their trials by that time, and if not then, around November/December before Christmas. It's all about "when's the smartest time" from a marketting standpoint. With something as fragile as MMOs when it comes to making everything perfect, FC should be smart enough to know when it is the right time to execute anything and how they execute it. 

If they release trials too early it will make FC look desperate. If they release them too late then it derives the point of pushing out trials; to get players at the most crucial time. But in all honesty, when to release trials is FC's smallest issue to worry about at the current state of time.

Originally posted by Bronks

Originally posted by templarga

Originally posted by Bronks

Originally posted by Douhk

I consider WoW a completely different genre because it basically holds an equal amount of players compared to every other MMO out there combined. But us of this "MMO" community compared to the "WoW" community are getting tired of it. It's a great game but we all have different tastes. If we consider WoW in this community (which it technically is) than I'd say it's definitely still king and will remain king... AoC as is is nowhere near comparable. WoW is the king of it's own genre, though. Like I said, many of us are sick of it, the other half of MMO gamers not subscribed to WoW.

Don't forget though that 4/5 of the worldwide WoW player base are Asian gold farmers which leaves only 2 million subscribers for all other continents that are non-Asia.

Break it down into those numbers and WoW isn't so impressive. Remember the next time you're looking to buy something in the AH and see it for 5x what it should sell for you can thank the 8 million Asian gold farmers that brought your <insert gear> auction price up through the roof.

Once players stop buying gold for real dollars and the Asian gold farmers have all their fancy gold selling websites shut down you will see WoW's player base drop.

Thats funny and told made up. 4/5ths? I hope you are being sarcastic. That means 4 out of 5 players are gold farmers? Really?

If that was the case, then how come I have not seen a gold farmer or spammer for the last few days on my server? And when I left Age of Conan, I was getting 10-20 messages a day left off-line by gold spammers. Offline messages will be so badly abused by gold farmers in Age of Conan it won't even be funny.

I can see it now: create account, spam everyone with offline gold farmer messages, delete account. It will be very hard for devs to track down. Oh well, just another example of the broken systems that permeate Age of Conan for the time being. I hope things get better and only time will tell. I wish AOC and its players the best of luck but the reason I left AOC is because its broken gaming systems reminded me of the greatest, most hyped game to date that turrned into a nightmare of broken systems and gameplay. I won't name it but, like the dev company that released it, both had 3 letters in their name.

Sorry, my numbers were a little off...

www.mmogchart.com/Chart11.html gives the most accurate release info based on Blizzard's press release regarding topping 10 million subs.

1/5 North America

1/5 EU

3/5 Asian

 

So all Asian WoW players are gold farmers?

Originally posted by Bronks

Originally posted by Douhk

I consider WoW a completely different genre because it basically holds an equal amount of players compared to every other MMO out there combined. But us of this "MMO" community compared to the "WoW" community are getting tired of it. It's a great game but we all have different tastes. If we consider WoW in this community (which it technically is) than I'd say it's definitely still king and will remain king... AoC as is is nowhere near comparable. WoW is the king of it's own genre, though. Like I said, many of us are sick of it, the other half of MMO gamers not subscribed to WoW.

Don't forget though that 4/5 of the worldwide WoW player base are Asian gold farmers which leaves only 2 million subscribers for all other continents that are non-Asia.

Break it down into those numbers and WoW isn't so impressive. Remember the next time you're looking to buy something in the AH and see it for 5x what it should sell for you can thank the 8 million Asian gold farmers that brought your <insert gear> auction price up through the roof.

Once players stop buying gold for real dollars and the Asian gold farmers have all their fancy gold selling websites shut down you will see WoW's player base drop.

Although a great deal of WoW players are gold farmers they certainly don't make 4/5th's of WoW's population. Probably not even 1/5th... though they do make a good number, nowhere near as much as you exaggerate it to be.

I thought similarly as well, but I learned that 10 million is pretty much accurate when it comes to people actually playing.... probably around somewhere from 8 to 9 are actually playing if I were to guess.

This entire thread is hilarious.

Originally posted by huxflux2004

WoW had 1.5 millions 4 months after relase. AoC already has 700k after 1 month. Impressive! I did not expect to see a WoW killer that soon!

 

Great work FC!

Keep in mind 4 years ago nobody had a single clue what an MMO was. Even today we don't make that huge of