All Posts by jusagamfrek

I tried healers, tanks, and ranged dps - truth be told, I lost track of how many different toons tried.  They all did a decent job of gaining renown.  The healer and ranged dps had an easier time of it than the tank.  In fact, the tank often struggled - especially if I had nobody healing me.  "Tanks" that focused on damage instead of defense had an easier time than I did behind my shield (of gaining renown), and I would understand if the developers stepped in to try and compensate somehow, though I would not be devastated if they did nothing.  But I digress.  Aside from renown, I can also tell you that as a healer I made money faster during rvr than with any other classes I played.  In defending a keep, I once made well over a gold in about 30 minutes at lvl 10 (and it was a fast 30 minutes!).  (I was grabbing my rr6 gear, and when I was finished I found the keep under siege.  I healed and cursed furiously, and had a blast doing it.  Best of all, despite being a tier 1 in a tier 2 area, I really felt like I was contributing to the fight!)

I plan on playing scenarios and rvr heavily once the game is released, and I plan to roll a healer in some fashion as my first character.  Yes, I'm sure I will have multiple characters, and for the first time, I'm actually excited about the prospect of leveling to the end more than once!

Originally posted by synn

to put things in perspective...could you see yourself doing PvE and quest as the sole way to lvl in WAR? Could you do this on say 3-4 alts in WAR as well? WoW offered enough quests and party dungeons/instances, wide open spaces with lots of mob spawns, loot drops were more common, more players to group with for PvE etc... WAR may have decent PvE but its overshadowed by RvR which is understandable considering it is an rvr based game.

   There is nothing really revolutionary about the PvE in WoW, but because the game is based around that system being in a group doing PvE content was very common and didn't make the grind so boring.  Playing WAR, I don't see the point of PvE since everything i need and want can be attained thru RvR. has anyone actually grinded a few lvls in PvE (level 12+)? except for when i was in a PQ it was very bland and boring cause either playerswere all doing PQs or they were doing rvr/scenarios. PQs are fine but when you have a million players doing the same one leveling is slow.

  Community will make a good game great. Its the same community that can make even the most boring things alot more fun. I just don't see the WAR community being to PvE oriented when there are so much more fun things to do like RvR.

 

...I'm a huge fan of WAR and have been in favor of playing the game as long or longer then alot of players here. I don't understand why ppl are getting bent out of shape over gamers saying wow pve is better then war pve. WAR is developed around RvR with PvE beinga secondary focus while WoW is based around PvE and PvR being just fluff to make some pvpers happy. I say fluff cause blizzard has no clue what it takes to make pvp a success. they failed on many attempts and this new xpac will probably be another failed attempt.

Hey synn, I'm not slamming you here, but I want to share my experience and hopefully put a fundamental oversight to rest (though I'm sure this won't).   I think the majority shares your opinion, but has missed something amazing in the process.

YES!  I COULD see myself leveling solely through pve in this game with multiple alts.  ABSOLUTELY I can!  I took a pair of characters on each side up into their mid-20s doing 90% pve, and I can honestly say I felt like I was overlooking tons of available pve content.  There was enough to do, and there were more than enough quests along the way in each area to keep my attention as I was leveling.  For the Order, I travelled briefly to one dwarf warcamp and one elf warcamp to turn in a quest at each.  I also flew to Altdorf and did a number of quests there.  But the rest of my time was spent in the lands of the Empire doing solo quests or PQs.  I really felt as though I was overlooking the dwarf and elf areas in the process and later rerolled characters from each race to take through their paces.  I essentially did the same thing on the destruction side, leveling a Chaos Warrior first and then back-tracking to try the other races.

The focus of this game is undeniably on pvp and rvr, though not for lack of development on the pve side.  I have to admit, WAR had not demonstrated the depth of other games, but there really is a TON of pve content - a fact that I believe has been by-and-large overlooked.

The bottom line though is this - I truly believe this is the game for everyone.  The only gameplay mechanic I haven't seen covered is "end-game" raid dungeons.  However, I also think the city sieges are the answer to this.  I think once a few raiding guilds sink their teeth into this, they won't know how to let go.  Imagine a dungeon that is different everytime you visit it - that's the potential with city sieges.  $.02

I saw pretty textures with poor environmental modeling and sub-par animation and FX.  Also that had better not be in-game music.  These are all things that can be corrected in time, and Darkfall may turn out to be a great game, but not in 2008.  This game is unfortunately a ways from release, though I will likely try it out when it nears completion.  If it can pull these issues together and deliver on the fronts that we can't glean from a video (sandbox freedom, immersion, balance, etc.), this game may do well.  Here's to hoping it does.

Wow, people. Did we forget we're playing a game here?  We aren't going to be having sex with any of our characters.  And do you all really approach every conversation with someone of the opposite sex so differently that gender makes a difference?  Are our prejudices and preconceptions really so deeply rooted that we project our fears and insecurities onto our avatars?   It's a bunch of pixels - well-endowed pixels, mind you, but pixels none-the-less.

What was the op ranting about again?  Oh yeah, good call.  Not a problem I mind running into.

Originally posted by joejccva

Before you pull my fingernails out 1 by 1 on this one, all I'm asking is will Warhammer also have:

1. Raiding
2. Auction Houses (a thorough economy)
3. Player housing
4. PUGs (some folks like grouping and not just soloing all the time)
5. As far as RVR is concerned - Either Keep loot or player loot of any kind for killing others or sieging a keep, etc.

Yes I played the preview weekend, Yes I think WAR is a pretty good RVR game, but will it also have some of the other great aspects that make an MMO great? :)

What I'm afraid of is that WAR is just a little bit of PVE and ALOT of RVR which isn't a completely horrible thing, but I can see where it can get old after a while without being more broad or deeper in the immersion.

Is anyone understanding where I'm trying to go with this or am I about to be punched in the eyeball?

Your thoughts?

Thanks.

1. Yes - they're called warbands and do not have many of the typical penalties associated with other games (can't work on quests while in a raid, can't turn anything in, etc.).  They are easy to form and easy to join typically, and heavily used in rvr.  As for traditional Raid Dungeons, I doubt there will be extensive content to this extent in WAR - they will instead focus on bringing more cities and massive scenarios into the mix for warbands (which will be a very good thing).

2. Yes - auctioneers are in the game, but weren't enabled for the preview. 

3. No - none planned at the moment.  I like housing, but it's certainly not make or break for me.

4.MOST EMPHATICALLY YES! - and there is an excellent mechanic behind forming them.  The open-party/warband is outstanding.  Simply open up a menu, sort the groups in the area by whatever credentials you want (including their distance from you), and click join.  There is no "lfg brd/lbrs/ubrs/dm pst" spam.  Best of all, from my experience, there is no drama.  People join, get what they need, and leave - and nobody gets upset.  It's fricken brilliant!

5.Sorta - I made money faster by defending a Keep than any other method in the game.  I also scavenged bodies when I could (crafting gathering skill) with great success.  Money has always been the great equalizer in MMOs and WAR is no different.  Money allows you to buy "rr" (renown rank) gear which matches the best of what's out there.  It also comes in several varieties to allow players to accessorize to their play style.  By the way, Mythic did a good job of providing a level playing field for everyone - pvp, rvr, pq, and pve areas all yield comparable gear.

Now about your PVE statement - with my first character I levelled to 24 in short order by strictly playing pve.  I got there playing through one race arc; I didn't even touch the other two, though I did visit the areas briefly.  I really felt like I was passing over a lot of pve content, and I believe it when Mythic states you can play from 1-40 following just the pve arcs.  Hell, I'd wager you can do it solo.  Is there the same depth in pve as other games?  I haven't seen it, but I didn't bother to go much farther.  At about that level I rerolled another toon and started in on the pvp.  The rvr and scenarios were so enthralling that I never missed the depth. 

And the hate goes on. 

If you'll all remember (and let's face it, most of you probably weren't even aware of what MMOs were back then), WoW took all kinds of heat before it's launch because it did nothing new or innovative.  WoW was successful because it took the best of all the other games from the time and did it better.  Through the beta, WAR has struck me as following this ilk.  There are a lot of people on the fence about playing WAR because everyone that has played the game has also done a poor job of explaining why it's so good (myself included).  WAR isn't the most innovative game out there, but it emulates the best and does everything better.  WAR will draw crowds. $.02

Excellent review.  Spot on.

Also, for the question about the art style - the game was reminiscent of WoW's art style (as Blizzard said they were inspired by the Warhammer Universe), but taken much further.  Compared to the screenshots shown the colors are more vibrant at times and more ominous at other times.  The environment sets a marvelous stage imho.

Originally posted by pencilrick

Originally posted by richmix

Originally posted by pencilrick

95% or more of my gameplay in MMO's is PVE.  I have very little interest in PVP and see PVP as sort of an adrenalin-pumping zerg-fest that will grow old fast.  (There's just so many times you can storm the same keep.)

If someone were to approach this game from a soley PVE standpoint, would there be much reward for such play, or is PVE seriously lacking to float alone?

Tell us exactly, what is it you like about PvE that makes you prefer it to PvP? Because the reason you've described so far--that PvP turns into an adrenalin-pumping zerg-fest--will not be the case a lot of the time in WAR.

What I like about PVE (good PVE) is the eerie and forbidding dungeon environments, and depending upon others for survival, and making in-game friendships or acquaintances.  Just the dread or fear of dying in a dungeon and losing experience or having to retrieve gear makes such experiences challenging and unforgettable.  (Castle Mistmoore or Lower Guk in EQ1, are examples of what I'm talking about).

PVP, in contrast, feels more to me like contact sports:  playing football or tag or something.  PVP in games I have played has more of an adrenalin sporting feeling, but doesn't have the touch of MMO adventure that good PVE delivers. 

I guess I'm not looking for gameplay that tests my energy, but gameplay that tests my courage and resolve.  Surviving with others within a spooky situation is fun for me.
 

I'm on the fence about recommending this game for you.  I fully understand where you're coming from, and I enjoy those moments too.  Overall, I'm very much a pve player myself and have always returned to the Battlefield series and the like for that "gear-oriented twitch" style you usually get with MMOs.  Some others here have pointed out that this game's pvp and rvr are much more strategic , and while deaths are slower, the pace is still fast.  The lack of a death penalty may be a turn off for you though (there is one, but it's negligible).  While I haven't seen a great deal of depth in dungeons, there were plenty of eerie moments, and the environment really sets a great tone.  The environments alone are worth the purchase to me.  Having said that, I only once found myself wandering deep into an area and being overcome with an ominous sentiment, and this was due in part to entering a much higher level.   These moments may exist later in the game, though, as I haven't talked to or heard from anyone that has gone more than halfway through the game.

In truth, most everyone got so caught up in the pvp and rvr that I saw relatively few characters past level 11, and practically nobody once I got to the level 21+ areas - nobody past 30 (and this is during the closed beta).  In fact, I myself, am guilty of rerolling characters constantly so that I could keep playing the fantastically made scenarios.  One thing this game has done very well is immersing the player in war - this is hard to concisely illustrate, but just take my word when I say that the game is as exciting at level 5 than any other game I've played at "end-game".

There is one experience that I can point out to you that may be more like what you're looking for.  Amazingly, this took place in an rvr area, though there were MANY similar areas populated by pve enemies.  Our warband (raid) wound its way down dep into a crypt in order to reach a battlefield objective - ostensibly just a large banner guarded by champions ("elite") and a hero (uber-elite).  (It would give our faction a bonus in the area.)  We had to fight through pvp enemies through this whole thing and everyone had to keep their heads on swivels to watch our backs while maintaining forward progress, all without getting lost down there.  While trying to take down the objective's pve guards, we also had to repel attacks from pvp enemies that were pouring in from a hidden entrance.  We took the battlefield objective, but the fight wasn't over yet - we were charged with defending it!  Three minutes of voracious pvp fighting and finally the objective was secured.  But that was just the start.  That was the precursor to the siege on a Keep! 

I need to note two things about that story.  First, that was a tier 2 fight; I was only level 14, and some people in the warband were only level 11 and 12!  We were fighting alongside level 18s, 19s, and 20s, and we truly felt like we were contributing (because we were).  The point is, it starts early, and while I haven't seen great depth to dungeons yet, I haven't seen any past this tier.  They could and likely do get much deeper (escalation has been excellent thus far).  Second, it was not hard to find this group.  I joined them through the open party system, which is phenomenal.  I opened a menu, sorted open groups by how close they were to me, saw there was an rvr group near me, clicked a button, and found myself joining them without a word.  I cannot begin to explain how easy and seamless grouping is in this game. 

This game has certainly tested my mettle, though in ways I never expected and always enjoyed.  I cannot wait to jump back in.  I changed my mind - I'm not on the fence.  Try this game!

"- Reality and perception are two different things, Warhammer has a GCD of 1.4s, WoW has 1.5s"
 

That quote is directly from Mythic.  Combat speed was not a problem.  The perception was, and learning the rythm further fueled the issue.  Two things of note: one - the "Ability Not Ready Yet" message is being tweaked so it's not so annoying.  Two -  a "soft-queue" is being added. 

Once I got the rythm down, this game was as fast as any other mmo I've played.  The combat was also more fun and far less frustrating in pvp.  Those who were "1-2 shotted" were likely level 3s fighting level 10s in the renown gear.  The amazing thing is that even at level 3 I found ways to contribute.  The game rewards everyone - long-time players will always find a way to get decent gear (in all areas of play), strategists will always find a way of contributing regardless of their gear, and groups that play well together will be able to mitigate the advantages of either.  To me, at least, things are just as they should be in WAR.

I am not big into pvp in mmo's myself typically - that's what the Battlefield series is for imho.  BUT without going into detail (because of the NDA), I will just say this - take nothing for granted about the way this game approaches the typical mmorpg formula.  THIS GAME IS FOR EVERYONE!  Soloers have more to do in this game than any I've played, pvp and rvr are wide open and an absolute blast (this coming from someone who typically doesn't like pvp rpgs), and the party formation in this game is all but automatic - trust me when I say finding a party is never a problem (for a myriad of reasons partying is not a problem).  This game will undoubtedly take mmo game of the year (yes AoC is outstanding, but it just doesn't pull you in like this), and I think in time it may actually give WoW a run for its money in respect to player base.

Hmmm... waypoints?  Maybe I've missed a game mechanic here.  To date, I have one bind point (which I've been moving as I level), and I haven't found any other fast travel options.  I thought I'd been pretty thorough in investigating the land - did I miss someone or something?   I'd consult the manual, but thanks to a faulty printing press I got shafted the majority of it.

 As for hoofing it, I don't mind... if it's a challenge.  Everquest had some great long runs (especially before PoP), but you were running through dangerous areas in the process.  You had to pay attention to what you were doing.  But if it's just a long tedious run with no chance failure, no obstacles, and lots of screen loads to boot, what's the fun in that? 

Wow, seriously - if I'm missing a game mechanic though, give me a shout and a doink!

Since the op seems to want the best priest class for pvp, I make 2 assumptions,  First, as a priest he plans to play with teammates.  Second, being pvp, survivability of yourself and your team is your utmost concern.  At the end of the day, play whatever you enjoy most, but to this end I have enjoyed the Bear Shaman more than all the other classes, both for pve and pvp.  The BS has excellent survivability, aoe healing and other buffs can be triggered by him hitting and taking hits, and he doesn't look like a typical squishy caster - people often overlook the big, fairly well armored barbarian wielding that massive hammer in order to score a quick kill on the glowing guy in the robe.  One thing I've noticed too (and maybe I was just with other poor healers) is that while not as adept at healing a single target, the Bear Shaman does well healing the entire group - something that comes in very handy in a mish-mash free-for-all pvp fight.  Well that's my 2 cents.

I haven't seen any mention of travelling in this game.  The worst part of my experience with this game was travel.  Horses were ridiculously expensive in my opinion.  I base this on the fact that I never bought a single item in-game, saved all my money for a mount, and still could not afford one at lvl 50.  Also, and even more annoying, was the amount of time I spent travelling from one area to the next, to the next, to the next, just to turn in a quest.  I expect to hoof it a lot in mmos - that's part of the nature of the game - but I hate spending 30 minutes to reach an area, 5-10 minutes doing a quest, then another 30 minutes to run back and turn it in.  I have quit more mmos over this than any other reason.  It breaks the gameplay for me.

How bout a giant ill-tempered sea-bass with fricken laser beams on its head!  Hey, someone had to say it.

It seems odd that people are in such an uproar over this subject.  This game has maimings and decapitations, but it's the possibility of pixelated sex that has everyone drooling or crying damnation.  This game could have the best gameplay in the world, but nobody will know that until the game is released.  And so, the marketers are doing their jobs by playing to everyone's insanity.  Way to play right into their hands.  AoC is definitely attempting to implement some innovative gameplay ideas for the mmorpg genre, and regardless of the conroversial content decisions I hope the game succeeds in delivering the gameplay promises.  Honestly, I could care less what its final rating is, as long as the game is fun.  However it's worth repeating that the content they've promised seems consistent with the lore, and anyone who is suddenly squeamish over this announcement has apparently never read the stories.

Is there a reason people talking up this game can't form complete sentences?  Is there a reason they use broken logic to sell it.  Is this indicative of the Lineage 2 community?  You're not selling the game - quite the opposite.  There is a reason Lineage 2 is often a pejorative in the mmo community - take care that you don't epitomize this reason.

Don't pay too much attention to what was released at E3 this year, not just for Conan but for all games.  Everything was toned down for the public.  They tried a different format this year to try to de-emphasize the expo's role in the industry, as odd as that sounds.  (Producers were cracking the whips on developers to create content for E3, and as a result developers were spending too much time and money "benchmarking" for it than developing other critical areas of their games.  Bad games were being overpolished and oversold at E3, while good games that weren't quite ready in time were often overlooked or even defamed by the show.)