Maybe they should add an item shop over there.

It doesn't surprise me.  I guess it even makes me happy to know that they are having financial difficulties and here's why.  I think it is insulting that people (especially Richard Garriot) feel like they can just put any MMO clone out there and it is going to make them money.  I'm sick of everyone trying to make a quick buck from MMOs.  I want something new, something different, something that is not just like everything else out there as well as something that runs great with little bugs.  TR like VSoH was rushed as if the consumer is an idiot and will never notice all the flaws. 

Bottom line, if you want my money, you are going to have to earn it!  In fact I've heard great things about AoC, but I'm going to wait atleast 45 days until I decide to so much as purchase the software because I've been fooled too many times by this genre.  As much as I hate to say it, WoW deserves all the money and subscriptions they get, they really take a lot of time and pride in their product while keeping the consumer in mind.  I just don't get that feeling from TR.  In fact, I feel like Garriot thinks we are all moroons that will buy anything he puts his name on (hell he even put it on the front of the box) what a slap in the face! 

Yeah UO rocked back in the day, even though now it is a piece of shit, but your name doesn't not make or break a game dude.  Take more time and pride next time.  I hope you lose money, while gaining an education in MMOs.  Damn I'm harsh tonight....well folks just my opinion, but the facts are the game isn't doing well.

Originally posted by abhaigh

Perhaps if the idiots in Austin had actually paid attention to the beta community...<snip>...stuff

^ This.

Originally posted by Hrica

 Wow the Koreans sure don't sugar coat anything do they!

They put the pwnage on TR, and indirectly Richard Garriot it seems

I would hate to see what would happen if they owned/published games that still limp along here in the US

Then again, it is a buisness. I think it is good that NCsoft/Korea is harsh and does not sit idle and let games limp on and say they are going to get better and to keep playing! like some other companys do.

Richard Garriot, John Romero, Brad McQuaid = Teh Leet Crew

The problem from the article that I was reading is that they are very stubborn and don't really take into account local managment styles as well as local tastes. Because of this they have a lot of problems with some overseas offices.

Originally posted by Sovrath

 

Originally posted by Hrica

 Wow the Koreans sure don't sugar coat anything do they!

They put the pwnage on TR, and indirectly Richard Garriot it seems

I would hate to see what would happen if they owned/published games that still limp along here in the US

Then again, it is a buisness. I think it is good that NCsoft/Korea is harsh and does not sit idle and let games limp on and say they are going to get better and to keep playing! like some other companys do.

Richard Garriot, John Romero, Brad McQuaid = Teh Leet Crew

Oh you aren't kidding. Look up other Korean companies and see how they treat their employees... The car company, Kia (?) they sent people from the home company in Korea, got off the plane in CA and greeted people and then summarily fired the management.

 

The problem from the article that I was reading is that they are very stubborn and don't really take into account local managment styles as well as local tastes. Because of this they have a lot of problems with some overseas offices.

Western devs keep pumping out garbage, non-working or copied style after another. MMO's have not had the same level of success here as in Asia.Aside from a couple of games over the last 5 or 6 years, everything else western devs have made has either fallen flat or crashed at launch. IMHO western companies have more of a quality control issue more then anything else.

The big mistake NCsoft made was investing in that overgrown manchild garriot. I'm sure the guy is very "creative" but that doesn't mean he has any clue how to run a project or a company. He did the exact same thing Mcquaid did with Vanguard. They paid these people tons of money based on an overrated reputation and got jack shit in return for their investment. If NCsoft wasn't already an established company they would be bankrupt and this game would have been shut down by now or at the very least go free to play. This game was a poorly run project from the start and then when the money ran out they basically just threw it out and hoped for the best.

The magnitude of failure in this game is hard to comprehend. The project took something like 8 years and some have put the total cost at nearly $100 million (US) Vanguard often gets the cedit for being the worst MMO release ever but I think this game really deserves that title. The only reason it doesn't get mentioned more is because alot of people never even heard of it. It's pretty bad when you can't even win at failing. I guess the koreans learned the hard way that in america you don't always get what you pay for anymore.

Originally posted by Stellos

It doesn't surprise me.  I guess it even makes me happy to know that they are having financial difficulties and here's why.  I think it is insulting that people (especially Richard Garriot) feel like they can just put any MMO clone out there and it is going to make them money.  I'm sick of everyone trying to make a quick buck from MMOs.  I want something new, something different, something that is not just like everything else out there as well as something that runs great with little bugs.  TR like VSoH was rushed as if the consumer is an idiot and will never notice all the flaws. 

Bottom line, if you want my money, you are going to have to earn it!  In fact I've heard great things about AoC, but I'm going to wait atleast 45 days until I decide to so much as purchase the software because I've been fooled too many times by this genre.  As much as I hate to say it, WoW deserves all the money and subscriptions they get, they really take a lot of time and pride in their product while keeping the consumer in mind.  I just don't get that feeling from TR.  In fact, I feel like Garriot thinks we are all moroons that will buy anything he puts his name on (hell he even put it on the front of the box) what a slap in the face! 

Yeah UO rocked back in the day, even though now it is a piece of shit, but your name doesn't not make or break a game dude.  Take more time and pride next time.  I hope you lose money, while gaining an education in MMOs.  Damn I'm harsh tonight....well folks just my opinion, but the facts are the game isn't doing well.

You dont get it, the managers in many companies, not only software, get paid really high in addition often stocks and bonuses. The problem in general is that such manager which are responsible for the success are not at risk at all if a project fails. Son dont assume that Richard went away without making his millions of profit. But this type of business is the problem for us all, if a big project fails...well of course you imagine it already...many people will loose their jobs and many have problems with their future.

Figure that the version they threw out cost them $14 million (that's what Auto Assault cost). Figure the present version of TR cost $20M to bring to release. That's $34M in dev costs...... So NcSoft paid out between $130M and $167M for the entire seven-year Garriott Brothers Project. And--here's a laugh--Robert Garriott, who was CEO until recently, is on the Board of Directors at NcSoft!

Originally posted by kinglee
to spizz......If you spend some time at Ncsoft.net/global you'll find that the Koreans gave the Garriott brothers about $43M in cash seven years ago for their "know-how" and "tabula rasa" --what you'd call an intangible asset. The company even got a tax writeoff for the "asset." .....The brothers also got 6% of the company in stock . Figuring that's roughly a million shares of stock, since the cap is around 20M shares--if they sold at the high that would be $90M more. If they sold at what it is now, that would be $50M. So the brothers were handed between $93M and $133M before they even started work on the first (failed) version of TR. They split it evenly. So, anybody who wonders where the money for the tour in space came from, here you've got it.

Figure that the version they threw out cost them $14 million (that's what Auto Assault cost). Figure the present version of TR cost $20M to bring to release. That's $34M in dev costs...... So NcSoft paid out between $130M and $167M for the entire seven-year Garriott Brothers Project. And--here's a laugh--Robert Garriott, who was CEO until recently, is on the Board of Directors at NcSoft!

Thx for the infos, didnt know the numbers..but yeah this is the methode which destroys jobs quiete often if something bad happens. Top Managers/Project Leaders should takea also risks, its all about the future of employees and the company itself/investors, that cant be right especially if we talk about such high amounts which the average wont be earn in a lifetime. The tax writeoff is well known for all high paid managers in most western (maybe all) countries and i really think sometimes why the tax payer, which we are all, should support that. Well... Many teens dont see those points, but i assume when they get some more years they will get some shocks about crappy parts of our world lol.

Originally posted by kinglee
to spizz......If you spend some time at Ncsoft.net/global you'll find that the Koreans gave the Garriott brothers about $43M in cash seven years ago for their "know-how" and "tabula rasa" --what you'd call an intangible asset. The company even got a tax writeoff for the "asset." .....The brothers also got 6% of the company in stock . Figuring that's roughly a million shares of stock, since the cap is around 20M shares--if they sold at the high that would be $90M more. If they sold at what it is now, that would be $50M. So the brothers were handed between $93M and $133M before they even started work on the first (failed) version of TR. They split it evenly. So, anybody who wonders where the money for the tour in space came from, here you've got it.

Figure that the version they threw out cost them $14 million (that's what Auto Assault cost). Figure the present version of TR cost $20M to bring to release. That's $34M in dev costs...... So NcSoft paid out between $130M and $167M for the entire seven-year Garriott Brothers Project. And--here's a laugh--Robert Garriott, who was CEO until recently, is on the Board of Directors at NcSoft!

Where did you get your numbers from? NCsoft - the site you listed - seems to make no mention of them, especially not the $43M in cash. I find it odd that the Garriott brothers would split it evenly since, you know, Robert Garriott was the executive producer and ran the company.

You go to NcSoft.net (global) not .com. What you'll find is the corporate site that takes time and patience (some work) to navigate, but is very interesting to anyone interested in investments or accounting mysteries. NcSoft publishes a lot of info. IR = Investor Relations. There are also releases that appear to be required by law, including the news of the tax write-off. The reports are PDF files that can't be linked here. You'd have to go back to May 17-18 2001 (seven years ago) in their file of PR releases to see the mention of the cash.

Back in September 07 there was an article in the Austin American Statesman that outlined the sharing of goodies very clearly. Part of the agreement with NcSoft, Richard said, was that Robert must be in charge. IOW--"My brother has to be my boss or I won't play." He's also on the Board of Directors, as you can find on the site.

Yahoo financials can be searched to find out about the stock options

If you look close enough at the NcSoft site, you'll find the first quarter 2008 revenue numbers for RGTR at $1.8M (but in won)--down 63% from the last quarter of 2007. Did you notice that in NcSoft's first quarter reports for 2008, they didn't even mention RGTR? They talked about COH, QW and Lineage, but not their most recent release.

on edit--here's a link to "Public Disclosure" section of the Ncsoft.net site having to do with the original cash outlay, I hope it's live--- http://www.ncsoft.net/global/board/view.aspx?BID=ir_public&BC=&SYear=&SType=&SWord=&PNo=8&BNo=1

Also, check out "Corporate Governance"--going though the site is a game in itself. You never know what you'll find!!

Thanks for getting back to me, but let me explain the reason I asked.

A month ago, the Korea Times ran a story that claimed that Tabula Rasa development cost over $100M, and NCsoft denied this. Games today are very expensive to make, but I can't think of many that cost that much, and I doubt Tabula Rasa is one of them. So your claim of $93-133M for just the first version, and $130-167M for the entire project seems really out there.

NCsoft.com (it's the same site as NCsoft.net - you're probably thinking of plaync.com) mentions that they bought Tabula Rasa from Richard Garriott for 43 billion won. That matches with your assertion of $43M USD, but it was only $33.4M seven years ago when they first began development, and they were paid in a lump sum. I'm pretty sure this amount covers the development of the game, and so there's no additional $14M for the first version. Your $20M for the present version is reasonable, though if I remember correctly, they said it didn't even cost half of what the Korea Times was claiming; at most, Tabula Rasa seems to have cost only $55.4-69.4M.

I don't know how much the Garriott brothers were paid in stock, but they work for NCsoft, and it's not like they were given them solely to develop TR. One of them is the president, after all.

As for the Statesman article, I'm very interested in it, but can't access it without a paid subscription. If we're talking about the same one, it's "Behind the scenes, another Garriott grasps the controls", written on September 5, 2007 (there were two others on September 7th). Can you post it here?