Originally posted by Paragus1

If forums are a bad way of gathering information, then why are there official forums for the beta?   Kind of hypocritical don't you think?

But they are not like normal official forums, are they now?

Because most betas have a very small amount of testers compared to what retail will be and companies can easily keep a small group in line, get SPECIFIC feedback on SPECIFIC issues, without having the wade through thousands of topics and thousands of posts. If you are a spammer and of no use to them and not following the rules, they can just remove you and it doesn't affect their sales or your wallet. If you start removing people from official forums that will affect sales, and with the sheer amount of people looking to play the game it would end up being something like 5% useful topics, 15% spam, 60% repeat topics that have already been answered, 10% flames, and 10% honest questions.  You have to wade through tons and tons of garbage to get to real concerns.

If you split it up between fan sites than you lessen the load on everyone.

They are official beta forums.   They are the primary device for communication between the testers and the players.   Why does the need to have this channel of communication for feedback during beta suddenly become nul and void with release?   Are the developers arrogant enough to think that they don't need feedback once the game comes out?    If they had forums for DAOC maybe they would have smelled the turd called Trials of Atlantis coming a mile away the ultimately turned DAOC from one of the best MMOs on the market to a shadow of its former self.

Originally posted by Paragus1

 

Originally posted by Cabe2323

Official forums don't work for actual information gathering.  They turn into a cesspool of whining.  I am glad there will be no official forums because I hate the cesspool that are WoW forums.  And Of course no Official forums means EA Mythic can't delete all of the topics they don't want to see like Blizzard does.

 

If forums are a bad way of gathering information, then why are there official forums for the beta?   Kind of hypocritical don't you think?

Thats a very controlled environment compared to live official forums.  Anything outside of the NDA the Dev's are rather actively reading & sometimes posting on the Warhammer Alliance boards once the game goes live the activity with the community will have t ocontinue otherwise yes things will fall apart like they did when Sigil tried it.  Sigil stopped communicating and thus things went boom.   Mythic's proven in the past with their no official forums...I dont see why this would change unless they want their game to fall on its face.

Originally posted by elvenangel

 

Originally posted by Paragus1

 

Originally posted by Cabe2323

Official forums don't work for actual information gathering.  They turn into a cesspool of whining.  I am glad there will be no official forums because I hate the cesspool that are WoW forums.  And Of course no Official forums means EA Mythic can't delete all of the topics they don't want to see like Blizzard does.

 

If forums are a bad way of gathering information, then why are there official forums for the beta?   Kind of hypocritical don't you think?

Because its beta and the only people who can see and use it are people who are in beta.  With everything hidden under the NDA there has to be a way for the Testers & the Devs to communicate hence...Beta Forums.  

 

Thats a very controlled environment compared to live official forums.  Anything outside of the NDA the Dev's are rather actively reading & sometimes posting on the Warhammer Alliance boards once the game goes live the activity with the community will have t ocontinue otherwise yes things will fall apart like they did when Sigil tried it.  Sigil stopped communicating and thus things went boom.   Mythic's proven in the past with their no official forums...I dont see why this would change unless they want their game to fall on its face.

While I understand what you're saying and agree with you mostly, just to play devil's advocate here. Why would a Herald type system not suffice in this case? It's good enough for release so why not for beta testing?

Here is a perfect example of why fan sites never replace an official one...

There was a fan site (not to be named) that a few years back, blackballed a new arriving guild that wanted to show their interest in War. The reason to show this interest was that a ea mythic representative leaked information that there could be possible beta slots given to one of the most active guilds of this said fan site.

So in this, this particular clan came in mass to the site and to their irc (or chat system, forget which) and showed their presence. Most as with most others of this fan site would at time sit in limbo mode ( IE sit in the chat system afk) as most do in IRC's. A comment came across one day that this new guild was attempting to "get in good with the devs" and the joke continued within the chat system till it became flaming insults.

Along with those insults, this representative of EA Mythic sided with the flaming insults, telling this new guild that they have no chance in hell of anything just because they show up one day to "supposedly show their support". Basically, this EA Mythic representative told this kin FU and well add one and one together and you see what I mean.

I was not part of that guild but I seen the conversation and aftermath happen, when all this finally finished, the EA Mythic guy was told by his company not to go there anymore and most if all ties were to be broken from that fan site. Now today they have returned and the same individual who said this (the official EA Mythic guy) is back as nothing has happened.

I however can guaranty he hasn't forgotten about this guild/clan and will always have that grudge because of what transpired. If this were to done on the "official site" you would have never seen this, because the checks and balances would be in place that would not allow this employee to ever side with anyone, as it makes no good business sense. However, because it was a fan site and seen to be "private" at the time, this guy along with the fan site owners got caught in their own deceptions.

Sadly, in the end, as posted above, they are back doing the same thing with no one even thinking of this past. So saying there is no bias or no issues in having a forum and or chat system were devs "Chime in" from time to time as a viable source is far from the truth.

The fact stated here and in previous post from official dev responses say it all .. " We don't want bad press and we want every dollar out of you before you realize what you just bought"... GL with that really, but if you think having fan sites run forums for a game is a good thing, I have a bridge and a planet to sell you for a cheap price!

Well now chaintm, if the problems "comes from the people behind the game" and are caused by them anyway, would an official forum do any difference then anyway?

Originally posted by Paragus1

 

Originally posted by Cabe2323

Official forums don't work for actual information gathering.  They turn into a cesspool of whining.  I am glad there will be no official forums because I hate the cesspool that are WoW forums.  And Of course no Official forums means EA Mythic can't delete all of the topics they don't want to see like Blizzard does.

 

If forums are a bad way of gathering information, then why are there official forums for the beta?   Kind of hypocritical don't you think?

No, it's not hypocritical at all. You're talking about a closed-to-the-public Beta Forum. You can't compare a Beta-Forum to an Official Forum. Besides, in your answer to Caleb2323, you totally went off topic. He never said "forums" are a bad way of gathering information . . he said OFFICIAL forums were. We have forums on several fanistes.

Serious question to those who say we need an official forum . . .

Are you proposing that EA Mythic should make an official forum and concentrate their attention only on the posts of that forum? In other words . . . no more posts at fanistes by EA Mythic . . . no more monthly "grab bag" topics?

Honestly, how will official forums do anything to improve the community . . and the game . . beyond what it it already is? Don't forget, this entire thread was made because Mark Jacobs answered a question posed on a faniste . . not a question posed on an official forum. So, what's the problem with that?

Originally posted by DuraheLL

Well now chaintm, if the problems "comes from the people behind the game" and are caused by them anyway, would an official forum do any difference then anyway?

Because on an official site, the checks and balances of the company employees (not just a renegade) would be seen and taken care of instantly. Because this was a fan site, it wasn't noticed till someone of that site (member) posted to mythic directly in an email about the issue. I have a copy of that letter somewhere if you want to see it.

 Point here being, fansite forums are a far cry to an official one that has closer moderation.

Originally posted by WHCWrenn

 

Serious question to those who say we need an official forum . . .

Are you proposing that EA Mythic should make an official forum and concentrate their attention only on the posts of that forum? In other words . . . no more posts at fanistes by EA Mythic . . . no more monthly "grab bag" topics?

Honestly, how will official forums do anything to improve the community . . and the game . . beyond what it it already is? Don't forget, this entire thread was made because Mark Jacobs answered a question posed on a faniste . . not a question posed on an official forum. So, what's the problem with that?

I find it absolutely amazing that people are willing to stand by every decision EA / Mythic make regardless of how silly it it is.  

So you're telling me you would rather have to scour the entire internet looking at fansites hoping to find some sort of a response from the developer or a 2 way dialogue between them and us?   Your in favor of having your opinion and question moderated by fanboi mods who run these forums because they don't like your question or criticism because it protrays the game in a negative light?

Was anyone else besides me watching the Vanguard debacle?  Brad McQuaid didn't want to have official forums either, he called it "viral" marketing.  It was later revealed that he would terminate a line of dialogue with websites that didn't moderate negative posters.  Do we want all these layers of filters just to be heard?  When Vanguard got sold to Sony, the very first thing they did was open forums.

Anyone remember that community manager who used to visit this site about 6 months ago?   That's right, the same community manager trying to advocate not having a forum.   I always thought he was pretty much advocating the termination of his job, and lo and behold some time later he was gone!

If you don't like what you find on official forums, don't go there!   Nobody is forcing you to read it.   I'd much rather know where to look to have a 2 way talk with devs about the game and its issues then scouring fansites, hoping the don't mod me because they don't like my questions or issues, then hope the devs don't mod the fan sites etc.

Stop drinking the fanboy cool-aid.  It DID NOT work with DAOC.   Anyone remember waking up on morning and having your shadowblade doing -%50 damage then the night before?   Remember watching the numbers of your favorite MMO plummet like a rock after ToA was released?   These are just 2 of many examples of issues that could have been solved with or forseen with an honest 2-way talk that official forums can provide.   If the devs are too chicken shit to stand by their product on their own forums, then that speaks volumes to me about the state of the game and the people making it.  Given what I know about the current state of the game, I guess I can understand why.

Paragus, if it would have been answered on a fan-site, a quick google search would find you the answer in .00084 seconds or something like that.