Originally posted by forthelulz

 

Originally posted by Arkane_A

Originally posted by forthelulz

Originally posted by darkboaz

  Well with out an offical site you do not have to deal with moderating it or runing it.  It is varry cost effective  some one will do it for you. You also show your players they you expect them to hunt down answers and leave them with a hope and a prayer to get offical answers.

not to mention if the developers know at launch there are going to be some very unhappy customers....

They announced this two years ago that they wouldn't have WAR official forums because they didn't have them for DAoC 7 years ago! It wasn't like four days ago they said "oh man people aren't going to be happy, let us scratch the official forum idea!", this was decided LONG ago.

<modedit>

so why does it matter when they decided? 2 years ago the only people following the game closely were

 

hardcore fans...

I am pointing out the fact that you are trying to spin something that is completely false. You are inciting that they decided not to have official forums because you think people won't like the game and they will be unhappy. This is not the case. It matters when they decided it because it wasn't anytime recently that they decided not to have them.

They decided to not have forums when they decided to make WAR. They decided to not have them because they didn't have them in the past.

Two years ago only the hardcore fans were following the game, you are right. So by your theory they should have had an official forum than because the "hardcore fans" would like the game anyways. Then they would have waited until now to take the down because they are worried people will hate the game.

<modedit>

I know I can barely bare this very forum here anymore :) Let alone an official one. I just came back from a long break but now I just want another one lol

Originally posted by Paragus1

 

 

Thanks for replying to my question. Now, allow my to engage you in discussion. Point - conterpoint. For the sake of argument, let's say that WAR now has an official site.

I find it absolutely amazing that people are willing to stand by every decision EA / Mythic make regardless of how silly it it is.  

So you're telling me you would rather have to scour the entire internet looking at fansites hoping to find some sort of a response from the developer or a 2 way dialogue between them and us?   Your in favor of having your opinion and question moderated by fanboi mods who run these forums because they don't like your question or criticism because it protrays the game in a negative light?

While your point is valid, it also opens up another issue. Let's say that the Dev's only visited their official site. Ok? Now, let's say you make a post at the official forums that you want answered. A mod at the official forums deletes it (because, frankly . . I don't care where you go, there are always mods that tend to do strange things). So, now, your entire discussion is dead and gone.

At least with multiple forums, you're not at the whim of a single mod or moderation team. I know a WAR fansite that routinely bans entire guilds, simply because one or two of their members broke a rule. Well, guess what? Now, the opinions of that entire guild is totally muted at that site. But they have other avenues where they can go to be heard!

In short, one of the most basic arguments against specifically using Official Forums is the exact instance you posted above. If you get on the wrong side of the mods, your voice is squashed. Mods are unpredictable at best.

Another factor to keep in mind. Each fansite has its own personality. So, a discussion about "Death Penalties" at Warhammer Alliance, Warhammer Vault and Warhammer Conflict will often resuly in very, very different points being raised. This is always a good idea.

Was anyone else besides me watching the Vanguard debacle?  Brad McQuaid didn't want to have official forums either, he called it "viral" marketing.  It was later revealed that he would terminate a line of dialogue with websites that didn't moderate negative posters.  Do we want all these layers of filters just to be heard?  When Vanguard got sold to Sony, the very first thing they did was open forums.

Vanguard didn't deliver. This had nothing to do with having Official Forums. It was a game that was  admittedly released months before it was ready. The good news is that Brad McQuaid isn't making WAR. The great thing about EA Mythic is that they constantly release new information about the development process. But EA Mythic doesn't talk about "vision", they show it.

I find it interesting that you say Brad McQuaid said that he would terminate a line of dialogue with websites that didn't moderate negative posts. I will take your word for it that this is true. Simply put, negative posts . . . as long as they are constructive . . are an essential part of identifying and fixing problems. Brad burned way too many bridges with his "vision", and I bet there are thousands of people who will never believe a single word he says in the future.

Anyone remember that community manager who used to visit this site about 6 months ago?   That's right, the same community manager trying to advocate not having a forum.   I always thought he was pretty much advocating the termination of his job, and lo and behold some time later he was gone!

I have to plead ignorance on this. However, I doubt he got fired because he said there will be no official forums. After all, he got fired . . and they're still saying no official forums.

If you don't like what you find on official forums, don't go there!   Nobody is forcing you to read it.   I'd much rather know where to look to have a 2 way talk with devs about the game and its issues then scouring fansites, hoping the don't mod me because they don't like my questions or issues, then hope the devs don't mod the fan sites etc.

Again, if the mods at the official forums don't like you  . . well, you're screwed! I'd much rather have a community where one moderator (or moderation team) doesn't have complete control over what is said.

Stop drinking the fanboy cool-aid.  It DID NOT work with DAOC.   Anyone remember waking up on morning and having your shadowblade doing -%50 damage then the night before?   Remember watching the numbers of your favorite MMO plummet like a rock after ToA was released?   These are just 2 of many examples of issues that could have been solved with or forseen with an honest 2-way talk that official forums can provide.   If the devs are too chicken shit to stand by their product on their own forums, then that speaks volumes to me about the state of the game and the people making it.  Given what I know about the current state of the game, I guess I can understand why.

How much have you spent on the game? Nothing. So, what have you lost? Nothing. EA Mythic has been extremely up-front with how they will run their community. If it is not satisfactory to you, then it's your choice what to do with yourself while hundreds of thousands are enjoying WAR.

I will assume that your last sentence is an NDA breach, so I will not respond further.

 Ohh I know it, to me was one of the weaknesses of DAoC. But in a game that had built in strife between factions it was probly the right call as it did not make for an area that the three factions could squable in.

  That does not change that it bites when it comes to giving and geting information. If there was offical boards I could get to I might be able to find out if being a WAR Newsletter Beta Winner will ever get me into beta. On the fan boads I have seen people are eather rude or just anoying when it comes to such questions. Most of that is born of miscommunication.

Originally posted by darkboaz

 Ohh I know it, to me was one of the weaknesses of DAoC. But in a game that had built in strife between factions it was probly the right call as it did not make for an area that the three factions could squable in.

  That does not change that it bites when it comes to giving and geting information. If there was offical boards I could get to I might be able to find out if being a WAR Newsletter Beta Winner will ever get me into beta. On the fan boads I have seen people are eather rude or just anoying when it comes to such questions. Most of that is born of miscommunication.

It helps your chances but there are still requirements to meet that they will not release to the public for obvious reasons. You can only hope or purchase a WAR preorder and get the flier that gets you into open beta at this point.

Originally posted by darkboaz

  On the fan boads I have seen people are eather rude or just anoying when it comes to such questions. Most of that is born of miscommunication.

Its really obvious that this horse is not dead, though elitest minded people who sprout out that "beating a dead horse" etc etc are the types who cant help the community.

Its posting stuff like, close this thread or go read up and trying to close down an obvious vocal majority against a decision made by EAMythic..

What some of the posters here need to realise that this game is bringing new people every day to it.  Especially how they force numbers in marketing.

Therefore why can't these new people have an opinion too whether good or bad ?

Still dont see why I should feel forced to visit 3 / 4 different fan sites in case I missed some important info, or an important dev saying something relecant on one fan forum and not another.

Its obviously to me one solified place would be better and give me the option to respond publically so all can see if needs be.

Originally posted by tikovoo

 

Originally posted by darkboaz

  On the fan boads I have seen people are eather rude or just anoying when it comes to such questions. Most of that is born of miscommunication.

Actually I find a lot of long time fans to be rude because its the ELITIST approach they have.

 

Its really obvious that this horse is not dead, though elitest minded people who sprout out that "beating a dead horse" etc etc are the types who cant help the community.

Its posting stuff like, close this thread or go read up and trying to close down an obvious vocal majority against a decision made by EAMythic..

What some of the posters here need to realise that this game is bringing new people every day to it.  Especially how they force numbers in marketing.

Therefore why can't these new people have an opinion too whether good or bad ?

Still dont see why I should feel forced to visit 3 / 4 different fan sites in case I missed some important info, or an important dev saying something relecant on one fan forum and not another.

Its obviously to me one solified place would be better and give me the option to respond publically so all can see if needs be.

 

If you are worried about missing something that was answered, google search would find things very fast for you. On an official forum or not, google is easiest way to get answers and it stops you from having to visit 3-4 forums like you said.

Originally posted by forthelulz

Originally posted by Arkane_A

 

Originally posted by forthelulz

 

Originally posted by Arkane_A

Originally posted by forthelulz

Originally posted by darkboaz

  Well with out an offical site you do not have to deal with moderating it or runing it.  It is varry cost effective  some one will do it for you. You also show your players they you expect them to hunt down answers and leave them with a hope and a prayer to get offical answers.

not to mention if the developers know at launch there are going to be some very unhappy customers....

They announced this two years ago that they wouldn't have WAR official forums because they didn't have them for DAoC 7 years ago! It wasn't like four days ago they said "oh man people aren't going to be happy, let us scratch the official forum idea!", this was decided LONG ago.

<modedit>

so why does it matter when they decided? 2 years ago the only people following the game closely were

 

hardcore fans...

I am pointing out the fact that you are trying to spin something that is completely false. You are inciting that they decided not to have official forums because you think people won't like the game and they will be unhappy. This is not the case. It matters when they decided it because it wasn't anytime recently that they decided not to have them.

 

They decided to not have forums when they decided to make WAR. They decided to not have them because they didn't have them in the past.

Two years ago only the hardcore fans were following the game, you are right. So by your theory they should have had an official forum than because the "hardcore fans" would like the game anyways. Then they would have waited until now to take the down because they are worried people will hate the game.

<modedit>

I can list a few valid arguments FOR official forums, such as:

1) the customers know that there is a forum that the devs are obliged to pay attention to

2) it's more casual for casuals (sic) to have one main forum they can casually turn to

3) it does give somewhat more "seriousness" to the whole thing

4) it's an industry standard

etc...

All that being said I still believe that MBJ's stand is a correct one and that his arguments are pretty much valid.

However, your main argument that "They won't have official forums because they know their game is going to bomb so they want to hush it up." is just plain silly. Please do try to come up with a better one. If you're having any difficulties please feel free to pick one from the four I listed above.

With all due respect folks, the answer "google the answers" even made ME laugh out loud

Originally posted by DuraheLL

With all due respect folks, the answer "google the answers" even made ME laugh out loud

True, but I fail to see any major difference between:

a) An official site with one link to forums

and

b) An official site with several links to forums

If there are fan sites that are presented as sanctioned and licensed forums that can be relied upon for information and feedback then I really fail to see any problem.

The only difference is that Mythic doesn't have to deal with the mundane work of maintaining and moderating said sites and they are not giving that job to EA to screw up.

I'd rather rely on fans who really care about the game (and even some paid semi-professionals) for feedback and information than some faceless monstrosity from EA "customer disservice" pool.

We're not talking about some weirdo forums you have to google up. We're talking about fully licensed sites that are regularly monitored for quality and content. The official info that I get on www.warhammeralliance.com is usually much much more up to date than anything on the official site. If there is a communication channel set up between the official site and fan sites where the fan sites get updated information linked to their front pages as soon as it appears then we really have no problem whatsoever.