Originally posted by kraiden

please dont confuse wow esq gear progression with no gear at all.

ALl games have gear.....

WoW and EQ have gear as means of leveling up and not leveling up as means of leveling up.

having an END game based around gear and raiding dungeons means the casual gamer will not be able to keep up... thats wow and EQ
Warhammer online will have RVR and PVP as the end games. so once you get to the end game.... well... its the end game. this is casual friendly because EVERYONE will eventually come to the same end it dosent matter how many hours you sink into a week. you will have more fun and more gold and more kills but eventually everyone will catch up to the spot you are at right now.

In DAoC it was "casual friendly" because the casual player could make the same armor that you got off raids and all gear had  a stat cap. so even if you played 50 hours a week and raided all day long and slayed dragons to your heart bleed.... you still wouldnt have more than 250 str and no weapon would ever do more than 16.5 damage.

 

casual friendly means I can come home at 6 and log on and play... not wait around for a raid or wait for computer controled dragons to spawn to fight.... I just log on, sharpen my axe, and walk in the direction of the burning city to have a good time for the night.

Damn fine post! Really

/kissass off

Seriously I agree. I am in WAR beta and I think it is the most casual friendly game I have seen. You can join the fray any time and the open world pvp means there is action without having to join a hardcore guild.

Originally posted by kraiden

please dont confuse wow esq gear progression with no gear at all.

ALl games have gear.....

WoW and EQ have gear as means of leveling up and not leveling up as means of leveling up.

I assume you mean RP/Renown here at the max level? Which is points gotten for PvP-ing as a result of which you "level up"?  So kind of like you get points these days in WoW PvP which you get the gear with that allows you to level up?

Both systems allow you to PvP to level up. Just WoW's doesn't let you level up more skills due to PvP like Daoc used to.

 

having an END game based around gear and raiding dungeons means the casual gamer will not be able to keep up... thats wow and EQ
Warhammer online will have RVR and PVP as the end games. so once you get to the end game.... well... its the end game. this is casual friendly because EVERYONE will eventually come to the same end it dosent matter how many hours you sink into a week. you will have more fun and more gold and more kills but eventually everyone will catch up to the spot you are at right now.

it's quite clear by now that Mythic's "RvR" = PvP + PvE so naming PvP besides that is redundant. They've clearly stated that there will be a gear gap in terms of power which will be gotten through doing different things. They also clearly stated that without overcoming that gap things like the King fight won't even be doable for you so the fact that you *can* join in at that point is meaningless.

There is also the renown gap which also affects your capabilities and is a clear way of creating a gap between a newcomer/casual to a veteran just like it was in Daoc.

"eventually everyone will catch up to the spot you are at right now"

How is that different from a casual gamer in any game, including WoW? That's exactly what a casual gamer's flaw is, he spends less time than a veteran. If he did spend more time he'd catch up sooner, but he doesn't.

 

In DAoC it was "casual friendly" because the casual player could make the same armor that you got off raids and all gear had  a stat cap. so even if you played 50 hours a week and raided all day long and slayed dragons to your heart bleed.... you still wouldnt have more than 250 str and no weapon would ever do more than 16.5 damage.

 This is conveniently forgetting the RR gap which was also there, I think the basic requirement eventually got up to RR5 till someone was considered "Done" with the most important skills?

casual friendly means I can come home at 6 and log on and play... not wait around for a raid or wait for computer controled dragons to spawn to fight.... I just log on, sharpen my axe, and walk in the direction of the burning city to have a good time for the night.

I totally agree with this part. I just haven't seen you bring forth any proof that this is true in WAR so far.

In case everyone hasn't noticed, Pheace usually just plays 'devil's advocate', he isn't a fanboi or a troll.

I believe WAR is very casual friendly. I can't say what hasn't been made public, but the public quest system, the fact that the only raid in the game is the killing of the opposition's leader,  dungeons are split into smaller parts (kinda like SM in WoW, I know don't compare to WoW..blah, blah, blah) that can be comopleted one at a time so you can do one part, then wait a week, do another part, etc..., and that dungeons only require regulare sized (ie: one group) to complete them. 

That is the majority of what has been made public that should encourage casual players to keep an eye on this game (always read up, and if possible, try before you buy).

Cheers!

If you expect to hang with the players that can invest 18 hours a day into the game then no you won't be able to stay competitive.

If you can only play 2 hours a day then you will only get 2 hours a day worth of effort in your toon.

All games are casual friendly, you progress as much as you can in those few hours, but anyone with more time to invest will always be further ahead than you, always.

You say you own your own job, if you don't invest time in your job, then it goes no where, where as someone who does invest time in their job goes places. (well that's the philosophy, until you get to the bosses buddies and the office slut,,, but we're not gonna go there).

So yeah, all games are casual friendly, but if you expect to be able to get all the leet crap the same as someone who can play 10 times more than you're sadly mistaken.

Originally posted by vmoped

In case everyone hasn't noticed, Pheace usually just plays 'devil's advocate', he isn't a fanboi or a troll.

I believe WAR is very casual friendly. I can't say what hasn't been made public, but the public quest system, the fact that the only raid in the game is the killing of the opposition's leader,  dungeons are split into smaller parts (kinda like SM in WoW, I know don't compare to WoW..blah, blah, blah) that can be comopleted one at a time so you can do one part, then wait a week, do another part, etc..., and that dungeons only require regulare sized (ie: one group) to complete them. 

That is the majority of what has been made public that should encourage casual players to keep an eye on this game (always read up, and if possible, try before you buy).

Cheers!

Thank you, I realize my stance can annoy people sometimes but I'm used to it by now and I think that people who know me for it tend to be able to have good discussions with me ^^

As for the stuff mentioned here.

I'm not argueing that WAR will not have plenty to do for the casual gamer. I'm very convinced it will as Mythic has shown they realize there has to be.

I *am* however arguing against the idea that there won't be a (possibly sizeable)gap between casual players and  "hardcore"(timewise) players and that there are points that support that view. (in my opinion at least, i may be misinterpreting but that's for other people to point out, unfortunately I'm not perfect  )

Originally posted by KaltesHerz

If you expect to hang with the players that can invest 18 hours a day into the game then no you won't be able to stay competitive.

If you can only play 2 hours a day then you will only get 2 hours a day worth of effort in your toon.

All games are casual friendly, you progress as much as you can in those few hours, but anyone with more time to invest will always be further ahead than you, always.

 

You say you own your own job, if you don't invest time in your job, then it goes no where, where as someone who does invest time in their job goes places. (well that's the philosophy, until you get to the bosses buddies and the office slut,,, but we're not gonna go there).

 

So yeah, all games are casual friendly, but if you expect to be able to get all the leet crap the same as someone who can play 10 times more than you're sadly mistaken.

I agree that people who have more playtime in any game will progress faster than those who cannot, but I (and I hope others) look at whether or not you can still be efficient in a smaller period of time. What I mean is can you accomplish in 2 hours what the person who plays more can accomplish in 2 hours? In this game I would have to say according to what has been made public that you can.  Yes you can say all games are casual friendly in a broad since, but most games have forced grouping to accomplish goals (here is where PQs shine, in that you can show up and participate without waiting to form a group) whereas this game does not until the end (according to what has been released). So you can log on, do your thing without waiting around for groups or others, and log off.

In the end, what is important is that you have fun. To some that is racing to the top and getting everything as fast as possible, to others its enjoying the ride to the top, others crafting, etc... In the end I believe this game offers it all to your soloers, guild oriented people, PvP'ers, groupers, even tiered progression peeps.  The only people who I think may feel left out based on released information are your hard core raiders and hard core FFA loot people.

Yes of course the more a person plays a game the faster they will progress and the better they'll get compared to those who play less.  But everything I've read about WAR indicates that it will be very friendly to the player that has only an hour or so to play each night.  For most of the time that I've played MMOs I've been one of those players.  I can tell you from my experience with other games that looking for a group eats a up  good portion of your time.  It looks like between the scenarios and PQs the limited time player will have a lot of options to get and get out while still having a significant experience in either PvP or PvE.

rvr is all about # so anyone can just follow the zerg and have fun.

Lots of arguments in this thread.  But I don't see any acutal quotes from the Devs.  So how about this:

"In the current crop of games that there is a glass ceiling on what a casual player can experience. You can get in and enjoy and play a significant amount of what each game has to offer, but you’re never going to the top tier unless you dedicate a significant chunk of your life, and as a result you’re always going to feel a little disconnected from the game as a whole. We’re trying to pull back a little from that – we’re making sure that our RvR focussed MMO doesn’t integrate its hardcore play at the expense of casual players. So if you only have four hours to play each week, we want to make sure you aren’t having a substandard experience."

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=9142&Itemid=61

Now people can argue about whether Mythic will be able to pull this off or not, but this articles shows that the Devs realize it is a problem that should be addressed.

Originally posted by Pheace

 

Originally posted by needalife214 Again to follow up on the guilds.. WAR is making guilds.. what they should be,not just a chat channel but a way of finding a group of people you know you work well with..

 

 

The guild interface,as far as i know, has a calender that the guild leader can set and change and a list of all guild events (set by the guild leader) with sign up sheets to predetermine who is going. (no more fighting over raid spots. as well as a constant feed of guild events (similar to the one in GW, i think would be the best example)

WAR is making guilds (to use war like terms) More of organized private armies in the WAR effort. Guild systems bring a great pride in your guild.

And as with DAoC, WAR is bring back online stats , per character and guild...

 

Some Call it Elitism    I Call it Pride!

 

PS. He is a AoC fanboi

 

I do agree the guild system looks really nice. There's a lot of things in there that should have been for years in my opinion. it's a nice step forwards.

 

I'm not quite sure how a raid signup sheet will remove fighting over raid spots all of a sudden though unless you feel a first come first serve system is perfectly justified and everyone will abide by that ^^

 

 

PS. I assume the fanboi remark is not aimed at my as I have never given AoC anything beyond even a secondary look.

Im sorry if i have wrongly stated you were a fan boi    i recognize posters by there avatars or sigs  so i think someone has the same avatar as you  ...oh well  i'm sorry

Originally posted by needalife214

 

Originally posted by Pheace

 

Originally posted by needalife214 Again to follow up on the guilds.. WAR is making guilds.. what they should be,not just a chat channel but a way of finding a group of people you know you work well with..

 

 

The guild interface,as far as i know, has a calender that the guild leader can set and change and a list of all guild events (set by the guild leader) with sign up sheets to predetermine who is going. (no more fighting over raid spots. as well as a constant feed of guild events (similar to the one in GW, i think would be the best example)

WAR is making guilds (to use war like terms) More of organized private armies in the WAR effort. Guild systems bring a great pride in your guild.

And as with DAoC, WAR is bring back online stats , per character and guild...

 

Some Call it Elitism    I Call it Pride!

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