So have they done anything with the end game yet? or is it still hami and alts?

Originally posted by Sunrider

So have they done anything with the end game yet? or is it still hami and alts?

Alts // Hami // RWZ // Recluse's Victory.

Funny, the way you worded it makes it sound like you're expecting an end game.  A friendly piece of advice, don't fall for end game hype -- the joy of a game is in the journey.  Before mmo's, once you reach the end, you just moved on to the next game and/or occasionally replayed the old one.  End game is a bs idea perpetuated by developers to be an extended timesink to collect your subscription money.  At least CoX makes replay value worthwhile for those who can enjoy it.  ( ' :

Originally posted by therain93

Originally posted by Sunrider

So have they done anything with the end game yet? or is it still hami and alts?

 

Alts // Hami // RWZ // Recluse's Victory.

Funny, the way you worded it makes it sound like you're expecting an end game.  A friendly piece of advice, don't fall for end game hype -- the joy of a game is in the journey.  Before mmo's, once you reach the end, you just moved on to the next game and/or occasionally replayed the old one.  End game is a bs idea perpetuated by developers to be an extended timesink to collect your subscription money.  At least CoX makes replay value worthwhile for those who can enjoy it.  ( ' :

well, do you play to make your character better?  or do you play to just wander around doing stuff with your character?  i would think the latter would be pretty much exclusively role-players.  most people that play, WANT to improve their characters.

after i pretty much maxed a villain epic, i started to look at the rest of that issue.  honestly, there were a couple of stories added and that's it.  the roman area is a bad joke.  not sure what's up with all the repeatable quests they're throwing out lately; but um, i'm just not finding THAT to be fun at all.  what's bad, is that the only reason epic villain ATs were added, is because of all the extra money they made from selling that wedding stuff... take away the villains and i'm sorry, that issue was failsauce.

anywho... i want to have NEW stuff to do with my toon, if i'm not getting the option of improving my toon.

i don't have the answer for COx.  i wish them well; but, i can't stay for very long at a time before it gets that "been there done that.. a bunch of times" feel to it.

I agree, no mmo has ever come close to making the coveted "endgame" that people talk about.

Originally posted by therain93

Originally posted by Sunrider

So have they done anything with the end game yet? or is it still hami and alts?

 

Alts // Hami // RWZ // Recluse's Victory.

Funny, the way you worded it makes it sound like you're expecting an end game.  A friendly piece of advice, don't fall for end game hype -- the joy of a game is in the journey.  Before mmo's, once you reach the end, you just moved on to the next game and/or occasionally replayed the old one.  End game is a bs idea perpetuated by developers to be an extended timesink to collect your subscription money.  At least CoX makes replay value worthwhile for those who can enjoy it.  ( ' :

I disagree, to an extent. I don't think the only way to enjoy the game is in the journey. If that was what I found to be the only enjoyable factor, I would play console games exclusivly. And, I don't really enjoy creating alternative characters and repeating content too much either, although I can bare through it sometimes, depending on the game. Therefore, and end-game filled with epic raids, better loot, more challenging areas, character improvement, etc. are what make the game more enjoyable to me - namely, the end-game content. Unfortunately, I found the end-game in CoH was really lacking, and I found the missions too boring to continuously repeat with an alt. character. However, I did enjoy creating my character - one of the best character creation set-ups I've tried. But, unfortunatly, it's not enough to keep me playing this game. Anyway, I am hoping Champions Online will hold my interests longer.

Originally posted by therain93

Originally posted by Sunrider

So have they done anything with the end game yet? or is it still hami and alts?

 

Alts // Hami // RWZ // Recluse's Victory.

Funny, the way you worded it makes it sound like you're expecting an end game.  A friendly piece of advice, don't fall for end game hype -- the joy of a game is in the journey.  Before mmo's, once you reach the end, you just moved on to the next game and/or occasionally replayed the old one.  End game is a bs idea perpetuated by developers to be an extended timesink to collect your subscription money.  At least CoX makes replay value worthwhile for those who can enjoy it.  ( ' :

i keep re-reading this, and i keep not getting it.

any single player game i've tried, i've never been like "hey this is cool, i like being wussy"; i've always wanted to be more powerful in the games.  once i hit the level cap, i would look around for other things to do -- nwn comes to mind.  once i maxed level, i looked for other fun things to do, then i wanted to get to a higher level and fight even bigger bads.

perhaps the solution is that there SHOULDN'T be an endgame?  i.e. the max "level" keeps going up, or at least goes up occasionally by X levels.  in a game like COx, where you can replay content from any level - that shouldn't be a problem.  but, other than farming magic drops -- who goes back and replays low level scenarios on their level 50, "for the fun of it"?

not to get a badge, not to get drops, just for the sake of doing it again and having fun with it?  is it that easy to go from a buffed out lvl 50 toon back to level 12 and not be able to even use your travel power?

perhaps COx should take a page from WoW and introduce factions of some type.  i.e. you're a villain, you can choose to get missions from some COT contacts and build up your rep with COT.  this unlocks COT costumes, temp powers, COT-only recipes (perhaps a purple set or two?), COT base items/weapons/defenses (maybe you unlock a cage with an eye-candy version of a behemoth or something?).  perhaps you unlock COT-exclusive strike forces?  after you do XYZ, you unlock something like... Behemoth epic AT, or a COT-based MM?  look thru all the COT missions, everything that you see in only COT missions -- that is something that could be part of the reward system involved in working for/with COT.  perhaps, your character ends up unlocking a power pool or two of COT-only powers/devices? 

you could "grind reputation" with all the different villain organizations.  or... perhaps each toon can only work with one NPC organization?  once you've worked for them, if you abandon/turn traitor against them, the you lose access to everything that organization offered?

Originally posted by smitty0356

I agree, no mmo has ever come close to making the coveted "endgame" that people talk about.

Ryzom does pretty well in this regard, with its particular brand of multiclassing. You can max one skill - which lets you play any top-end content - but there's still lots of other skills you can work on after that.

And because the only advantage to maxing every single skill is giving yourself more option in how you play (rather than making you more "powerful") it's a pretty relaxed "endgame" too.

Originally posted by damian7

Originally posted by therain93

Originally posted by Sunrider

So have they done anything with the end game yet? or is it still hami and alts?

 

Alts // Hami // RWZ // Recluse's Victory.

Funny, the way you worded it makes it sound like you're expecting an end game.  A friendly piece of advice, don't fall for end game hype -- the joy of a game is in the journey.  Before mmo's, once you reach the end, you just moved on to the next game and/or occasionally replayed the old one.  End game is a bs idea perpetuated by developers to be an extended timesink to collect your subscription money.  At least CoX makes replay value worthwhile for those who can enjoy it.  ( ' :

 

i keep re-reading this, and i keep not getting it.

 

any single player game i've tried, i've never been like "hey this is cool, i like being wussy"; i've always wanted to be more powerful in the games.  once i hit the level cap, i would look around for other things to do -- nwn comes to mind.  once i maxed level, i looked for other fun things to do, then i wanted to get to a higher level and fight even bigger bads.

perhaps the solution is that there SHOULDN'T be an endgame?  i.e. the max "level" keeps going up, or at least goes up occasionally by X levels.  in a game like COx, where you can replay content from any level - that shouldn't be a problem.  but, other than farming magic drops -- who goes back and replays low level scenarios on their level 50, "for the fun of it"?

not to get a badge, not to get drops, just for the sake of doing it again and having fun with it?  is it that easy to go from a buffed out lvl 50 toon back to level 12 and not be able to even use your travel power?

perhaps COx should take a page from WoW and introduce factions of some type.  i.e. you're a villain, you can choose to get missions from some COT contacts and build up your rep with COT.  this unlocks COT costumes, temp powers, COT-only recipes (perhaps a purple set or two?), COT base items/weapons/defenses (maybe you unlock a cage with an eye-candy version of a behemoth or something?).  perhaps you unlock COT-exclusive strike forces?  after you do XYZ, you unlock something like... Behemoth epic AT, or a COT-based MM?  look thru all the COT missions, everything that you see in only COT missions -- that is something that could be part of the reward system involved in working for/with COT.  perhaps, your character ends up unlocking a power pool or two of COT-only powers/devices? 

you could "grind reputation" with all the different villain organizations.  or... perhaps each toon can only work with one NPC organization?  once you've worked for them, if you abandon/turn traitor against them, the you lose access to everything that organization offered?

*grin*  First of all, when I say enjoyment is in the journey, I really man it is in the journey and completing the journey (i.e accomplishment).  Second, I'm not advocating "hey it's great to be a wuss" but the point is that you get to see your character develop and experience fun adventures. HOw many games do you play where you start out almighty powerful?  Strategy games come to mind.  Flight Simulators too and old school arcade games like Asteroids, Donkey Kong and Pole Position.  Those are endurance games.

In most action/adventure/shooter/rpg single player games, you get new powers and abilities.  Contra, Devil May Cry, God of War, Diablo, Doom -- you always start out wussy. But then you go through the journey and you get more powerful until you reach the end -- you beat the game, reach max level.  What happens now? 

For those single player games, you either start over with a new build, maybe go back to find some missing things, or you move on to the next game, don't you?  Why should you treat mmos any differently?  Because the companies said so?  Companies contrived this idea of end game, that you can do more with your character but there's no way for them to keep up with that demand.  They SOLD everyone on this IDEA that there's more to do AFTER YOU BEAT THE GAME but the fact is, once you're done with the game....you're done.  You mention NWN as a great game with end content but that's a situation where content was coming from a large community rather than a single entity.  MMO's simply can't deliver at that rate.  What they can do is offer up more to grind, which ironically enough, you also suggested.  They do this because they want to stretch out how long you're going to pay them.

Heck, think about monopoly -- you start out "wussy" with your 200 dollars.  You go in circles a whole bunch of times and as you do, you acquire new powers (properties, get out of jail free cards), equipment (first houses and then hotels) , and ever-more money to upgrade.  There are time sinks (jail, getting all of the same color before adding houses) and pvp (land on someone else's property and pay through the nose) as well as some glorious moments (winning 2nd prize in the beauty pageant).  But, inevitably, you max out.  Now, your choice is to either keep going around the board and collect 200 dollars (perhaps collect some more rent if people are even willing to play still),  start a new game with a different build (acquire different properties since it's the roll of the dice) and see if you can beat it again, or just move on to the next board game (the Game of Life or Stratego.) 

This is what I mean by end-game being contrived.

Originally posted by therain93

Heck, think about monopoly -- you start out "wussy" with your 200 dollars.  You go in circles a whole bunch of times and as you do, you acquire new powers (properties, get out of jail free cards), equipment (first houses and then hotels) , and ever-more money to upgrade.  There are time sinks (jail, getting all of the same color before adding houses) and pvp (land on someone else's property and pay through the nose) as well as some glorious moments (winning 2nd prize in the beauty pageant).  But, inevitably, you max out.  Now, your choice is to either keep going around the board and collect 200 dollars (perhaps collect some more rent if people are even willing to play still),  start a new game with a different build (acquire different properties since it's the roll of the dice) and see if you can beat it again, or just move on to the next board game (the Game of Life or Stratego.) 

This is what I mean by end-game being contrived.

 

For the most part, I agree with you. However, I feel compelled to nitpick your Monopoly analogy. What you describe is not the true end game of Monopoly - the ultimate end of the game is when you own all the properties on the board, establishing a -dun dun dunnnnn- real estate monopoly. At this point, there should be no others players remaining in the game.
 

I suppose one could say that hotelling every property you own (while others are still playing) would be akin to hitting the level cap and forcing everyone else out of the game would be the equivalent of fleshing out the missing badges/enhancements/accolades...

Originally posted by themilton

Originally posted by therain93

Heck, think about monopoly -- you start out "wussy" with your 200 dollars.  You go in circles a whole bunch of times and as you do, you acquire new powers (properties, get out of jail free cards), equipment (first houses and then hotels) , and ever-more money to upgrade.  There are time sinks (jail, getting all of the same color before adding houses) and pvp (land on someone else's property and pay through the nose) as well as some glorious moments (winning 2nd prize in the beauty pageant).  But, inevitably, you max out.  Now, your choice is to either keep going around the board and collect 200 dollars (perhaps collect some more rent if people are even willing to play still),  start a new game with a different build (acquire different properties since it's the roll of the dice) and see if you can beat it again, or just move on to the next board game (the Game of Life or Stratego.) 

This is what I mean by end-game being contrived.

 

For the most part, I agree with you. However, I feel compelled to nitpick your Monopoly analogy. What you describe is not the true end game of Monopoly - the ultimate end of the game is when you own all the properties on the board, establishing a -dun dun dunnnnn- real estate monopoly. At this point, there should be no others players remaining in the game.
 

I suppose one could say that hotelling every property you own (while others are still playing) would be akin to hitting the level cap and forcing everyone else out of the game would be the equivalent of fleshing out the missing badges/enhancements/accolades...

And that's a valid nitpick but, honestly how many people actually finish a game of monopoly rather than just concede to the eventual winner?  It's anecdotal but I think the point holds up. ( ' :

I've also made analogies to the game of life, when someone finishes at the millionaire spot while others are still playing for several rounds more.  Where's the end game for that guy? ( ' ;