Profile: Fishermage
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| Username | Fishermage  |
| Real Name | Jody Weitzman |
| Rank | Advanced Member |
| Joined | November 23, 2005 |
| Gender | Male |
| Age | 46 |
| Location | Newtown, CT, United States |
| Last Visit | August 20, 2008 |
| Post Count | 1337 |
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- Why have SOE apologies fallen short?
Originally posted by Malickiebloo
Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by Malickiebloo
Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by Malickiebloo
Originally posted by Suvroc
Originally posted by ummax
I will continue to realize that they are no more or less unethical and their reputation is not any better or worse then any other gaming company in the industry and not get ripped off because that's where your headed if you dont wake up soon and realize that no the grass is not greener on the other side of the street.
So in your opinion the whole industry is unethical and you've got nothing to say about that?
Every business could be looked at as morally bankrupt , It's part of doing business (chasing the all mighty dollar). Your hatred is yours because you experienced the cause of it. Just like anyone effected by Blizzards overzealous bans experienced their source of hatred .AOC subscribers met their cause through Funcom and their double speak (lies) , CCP's customers who were effected by dev interference in the game world (while posing as players) gained their source of hatred there and nowhere else.
DID SOE take a few steps to many while walking all over their player base ? Sure , I can agree with that. However realize I was there too , I experienced those causes for hatred myself. If I were one of the many afftected by the cases I pointed out above, I'd probably carry their torch as well .
I have to completely agree with ummax here , The grass really isn't much greener on the other side . i've been there for almost three years ,It's a rather ugly shade of dried up browns.It just comes down to which unethical treatment you've been exposed to .
"Everyone is doing it" is NOT a relevant argument against the company we are discussing doing it. It is simply a rationalization, and serves no purpose other than to obfuscate the discussion.
It is something ONLY guilty parties usually do, not honest people honestly discussing an issue do.
That wasn't my point (everyone is doing it), I was basically agreeing with the whole discussion in general , With the point being unless you experienced it you're not going to understand it .
The "whole discussion" is about why have SOE's apologies fallen short -- to which certain persons have tried to troll the thread and obfuscate the issue by bringing that "everyone and his mother is an SOB as well," so people should accept SOE doing it too.
It's a junk argument, and has no place in a reasonable discussion.
There's no way to have such a discussion , Without judging their actions compared to others. If you are trying to determine whether their actions were inexcusable , Does it not make sense to weigh them against other actions to see where the acceptable limit is ?
You're basically cutting off any discussion with that attitude. I don't think it could be considered a reasonable discussion without factoring in the treatment you receive elsewhere.
Sorry, if murder is wrong it's wrong, no matter how many people do it. Discussing ONE murder case doesn't exonnerate the murderer by bringing up the fact that lots of people murder.Fraud is fraud; it's wrong or it isn't -- cpmparing a fraud of a particular company vs other company's frauds serves no one's interest.
We are not discussing what is a proper standard here; we are discussing what SOE did, how they attempted to rectofy it, and why it isn't good enough. That has nothing to do with other companies. Bringing up such irrelevancies serves no purpose other than a weak attempt to diffuse what they did wrong. It is a wilful hijack of the discussion, and one that certain people use every time SOE is criticised.
By all means, if you want to start an industry standards discussion, do so -- it doesn't belong where it doesn't belong though. In this thread, it is an obvious hijack.
- Posted: 8/19/08 3:28 PM
Star Wars Galaxies
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- What if.....
Originally posted by Malickiebloo
@ Ky and Fish
I see both of your points and agree with them , If it's not a SW MMO they should say so . There is one factor to consider , The leak from SOE was that the KOTOR game was going to be like Diablo ,a pseudo rpg/morpg.Since an MMO isn't far off from that is it really leading people astray by not commenting ?
Yes it is. When you know what people want, and they do -- and you let them go on and get excited with misleading information, if you do not correct, you have effectively misled them. In this business where word-of-mouth is everything, that would be a VERY stupid move on their part.- Posted: 8/19/08 3:06 PM
Star Wars Galaxies
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- What if.....
Originally posted by Malickiebloo
Originally posted by Kylrathin
To clarify, the thing I think would upset most people, myself included, isn't that they haven't told us what the game's going to be about. Rather, that they are fully aware that so many people are hoping it's going to be Star Wars, and if it isn't, that they haven't denied it yet. The disappointment comes if we're a month from release and the IP is finally revealed as something besides Star Wars. If it's not Star Wars, say so NOW, let us get over our disappointment, and when we recover we'll come back and check the game out. They don't have to tell us what the game IS, just what it ISN'T.
No matter what happens, I wouldn't blame EA's CEO for it. Quite frankly, there's too many other things to blame him for, and an offhand answer to an offhand question is by no means official. It is, however, up to EA's marketing department to clarify his statement, and they really haven't. And for anyone that thinks "they shouldn't have to respond to a bunch of dorks posting Internet rumors", let me remind you that the dorks posting Internet rumors provide better marketing and direct sales effort for games than whatever money is spent on the old-fashioned ways of doing it.
I'll have to clarify my point as well , I'm not really commenting on whether you should feel screwed , or led along. My point was I prefer their quiet approach , No hype is good hype IMO. Like I said Hype what you are going to deliver not what you want to deliver.The problem is they have accepted the hype, ridden the hype, tweaked the hype, and if it turns out the hype was all BS, it will not serve them well.
- Posted: 8/19/08 2:38 PM
Star Wars Galaxies
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- What if.....
Originally posted by Malickiebloo
Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by Kylrathin
More and more, I'm beginning to believe that this is probably true. On Bioware's site, if you hover over the Bioware Games link at the top, you have separate options for "Massively Multiplayer Online (MMO)" and "LucasArts/Bioware Interactive Product". In the grand scheme it could mean nothing - however, with the announcements at SOE's Fan Faire craptaveganza, with LucasArts being there and not denying SOE's statements about the LA/Bioware game not being an MMO, I'm feeling less and less thrilled with it.
If it's not a Star Wars MMO, I'll never play another Bioware game again. They have been well aware of all of the rumors for a long time now, and even with EA's CEO and his slip of the tongue, they have refused to deny anything. All they would have had to do is say "No, it's not a Star Wars MMO, but we think you'll love it anyway". They keep their secrecy and squash some rumors in the process, and they look respectable doing it. This "no comment" bull is old and getting older, and will serve to irritate and drive away more people than it actually attracts if the IP isn't what everyone thinks it is.
Gotta agree here. If their new MMO turns out not to be Star Wars, I know I am gonna be disappointed. I assume so will a couple of hundred thousand other people, and their behavior these past couple of years, dangling the possibilities, will screw them in the long run -- people do not like being played.
Now, if it IS a Star Wars MMO, and it's a good game, their silence would be understandable.
Personally, I'm skeptical, yet hopeful, about the whole thing.
There could be many different reasons why they can't spill the beans right now . NDA's , Nothing to show so on and so on...
I can't say I'd be disappointed if it's not a star wars MMO .I never got to hyped about it in the first place (far to many disappointments in the MMO sphere as of late) I'd probably be happy with an online version of KOTOR , If it's a good game.
If this turns out to be true, I can't really blame Bioware for a screwup by EA's CEO.I wouldn't label their tight lipped approach as trying to play anyone , If anything it shows the exact opposite .I'd prefer every company to keep quiet until they have their game working and they know what is making it in and what's not .Hype what you have not every pipe dream you think up while conceptualizing your game.If it turnsout NOT to be a SW MMO, all their winks and nods will cause the game to flop. Just watch. Their reasons and excuses won't matter when they piss off hundreds of thousands of hopeful people.
- Posted: 8/19/08 2:36 PM
Star Wars Galaxies
-
- Why have SOE apologies fallen short?
Originally posted by Malickiebloo
Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by Malickiebloo
Originally posted by Suvroc
Originally posted by ummax
I will continue to realize that they are no more or less unethical and their reputation is not any better or worse then any other gaming company in the industry and not get ripped off because that's where your headed if you dont wake up soon and realize that no the grass is not greener on the other side of the street.
So in your opinion the whole industry is unethical and you've got nothing to say about that?
Every business could be looked at as morally bankrupt , It's part of doing business (chasing the all mighty dollar). Your hatred is yours because you experienced the cause of it. Just like anyone effected by Blizzards overzealous bans experienced their source of hatred .AOC subscribers met their cause through Funcom and their double speak (lies) , CCP's customers who were effected by dev interference in the game world (while posing as players) gained their source of hatred there and nowhere else.
DID SOE take a few steps to many while walking all over their player base ? Sure , I can agree with that. However realize I was there too , I experienced those causes for hatred myself. If I were one of the many afftected by the cases I pointed out above, I'd probably carry their torch as well .
I have to completely agree with ummax here , The grass really isn't much greener on the other side . i've been there for almost three years ,It's a rather ugly shade of dried up browns.It just comes down to which unethical treatment you've been exposed to .
"Everyone is doing it" is NOT a relevant argument against the company we are discussing doing it. It is simply a rationalization, and serves no purpose other than to obfuscate the discussion.
It is something ONLY guilty parties usually do, not honest people honestly discussing an issue do.
That wasn't my point (everyone is doing it), I was basically agreeing with the whole discussion in general , With the point being unless you experienced it you're not going to understand it .
The "whole discussion" is about why have SOE's apologies fallen short -- to which certain persons have tried to troll the thread and obfuscate the issue by bringing that "everyone and his mother is an SOB as well," so people should accept SOE doing it too.It's a junk argument, and has no place in a reasonable discussion.
- Posted: 8/19/08 2:33 PM
Star Wars Galaxies
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