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• • EVE Online: What`s Coming in EVE

  • Originally posted by garry
    

    EVE is a totally PvP oriented game. My two friends and I joined about a month ago. The extremely steep learning curve, along with little ability to decide what to do next made it difficult for us to enjoy our first times in. We tried to get info from the chat lines but most often we got arrogant insults about 'newbies' or mindless offensive chatter. Buried somewhere in this were a few helpful suggestions but finally we got tired of this.[...]

    Ships are the stars of the game of course. But guys! Most of them look like somebody stuck a bunch of items togetner and then hit it with a hammer! Hadly able to tell front from rear unless the rockets are blasting. A few come thru ok, like the Galletean Caracal cruiser which resembles a Klingon bird-of-prey and is downright cool. But why did they leave out virtually all the more conventional design types? Yes, I am aware that spaceships have no need for streamlining or even aesthetics, but I have news for you.[...]

    CCP is a company and needs to make a profit. People like myself, a former game designer for TSR, now retired, have all sorts of ideas for content and improving game play. First decide if you want to keep the more casual player who simply wants a few hours of escapism, not endless frustration of high level players gloating over their ability to destroy most new players at will.[...] I fear that the majority of high level hard corps EVE fans do not want any change that might intefere with their power and pleasure. Few have any interest in gaining new paying players to support the game. This is, of course, only my opinion.

    Ideas![...] yes treasure, like in WOW, who have 10-15 million paying accounts. Can you imagine the outstanding content upgrades if CCP had even a fraction of those accounts?  I have already bragged on the graphics, so what about seeing 'glimmers', 'gleamings', 'glistenings', 'glowers' etc...? None of which are detectible with equipment but might be seen if you manually fly your ships around asteroids. Comets you can reach that have unknown effects, mabey on your character or ship. Wrecked and abandoned ships adrift that can be explored, if not by avatars then mechanical remote drones. For goodness sake the list of ideas and possibilities is practically endless, and all with range of the present programming. [ed note: see last paragraph in reply]

    I have just read that the company is doing away with ghost training.[...]

    I hope I don't cause a lot of flaming because I criticised this game. I simply wanted to point out some stuff, both good and bad, like a regular reviewer. If I was somewhat harsh of the hard corps it was because when my friends and I finally took our hard earned new cruisers and ventured into low sec space (.4),  our three Type 1 cruisers were ambushed immediately by four assault ships of some type a from Mining Corp for cripes sake!  Taught us a lesson? Sure it did! Fun? No!  Frustrating?  Yes!  Annoying? Very!  We are newbies (less than two months). Read this paragraph and decide if you want others to feel the same way about a your game, and we have to pay for it. Should we bother to stay? Doubtful but will stick a little longer and see what happens. Do you really care? "GRIN", seriously doubt it.

    Thanks for listening,                            Garry Spiegle

    
     

    Man, do I hear a lot of 'cry, cry, cry' in this post, or what? Did you not bother to read any of the new player guides out there? There are dozens of them on every single website that deals with EVE Online. They all say the same things: Don't fly what you can't afford to lose; Stay away from low/null-sec unless you are ready for a pvp fight; Learn how to use the tools given you to find/avoid fights... I could go on here, but why repeat everybody else? (And does your design experience on AD&D modules really apply to overall game balancing? Assuming you're who you say you are, of course.... A baseball player can bat and field, but it doesn't make him a good coach. Just asking!)

    The next thing I would like to 'criticize' is the complete lack of any attention to detail from your post. Accurate information decreases the likelihood of getting flamed and makes you look more intelligent. You get ships wrong, you get details wrong, you get patch information wrong. (That would be a Caldari Caracal, not Gallente.) EVE Online is a very unforgiving game and very detailed oriented. Failure to pay attention to those details gets your ship 'sploded every time.

    Last, we don't mention that 'Idiots Guide to MMORPGs' that is WoW. It has little to do with EVE other than it is also an MMORPG. Also, check your demographics for WoW. You'll find that they might have 10+ million subscribers, but a good 2/3rds of those are Chinese accounts, where many games aren't even played because of Chinese law restricting Internet access. They also have that many subs because the game is idioticly simplistic. Also, since I have played WoW, I don't know anything in that game that 'glimmers' or 'gleams,' though EQ2 has little collectibles that can be picked up like that. It's fun in EQ2 because you have to run all over a zone to harvest, anyway. (Besides, do you truly understand the scale of distances in stellar space? Anything more than 125-150 km is warp distance. Planetary distances are measured in AU: 1 AU = 150M km) Ok, I'm done flaming now. (I had to get that out of my system.) I do have a few useful comments to make.

    I've spent most of my pod career in the newbie corps and chat helping out players that needed it, but have certainly lambasted noobs. It usually came from 1) a player not paying attention to the tutorials, 2) not even doing the tutorials, or 3) still not paying attention to what more experienced players were telling them. I've recently moved on from the newb corps only because there are things I wanted to do and couldn't accomplish there. I do still make myself available through the ever present 'Help' channel and local. Yes, the learning curve is more of a cliff. Yes, CCP could do more to improve the new player experience. I've only been playing a year and a half myself, but in that time, CCP has done much to improve tutorials. There used to not even be tutorials for that matter.  They're doing even more to make the game new player friendly, but it does take time, and they have to satisfy their dedicated player base, too, by fixing bugs and improving and adding to end-game content.

    As far as the ships go... sounds like you're playing Minmatar characters. Those aren't anything more than a flying junkyard with warp drives and thrusters strapped to them. In my opinion, you should be able to salvage a Minmatar ship from a Raven, but who am I to design? As far as the other races' ships go, yes there is some reason for streamlined design stemming from mechanical engineering, but it has nothing with designing 'internetz spaceships'. I say go with wild and wierd! The game would be interesting no matter what the ships looked like. Remember, there is no 'traditional' ship design for ships that spend their entire life outside of an atmosphere, only several dozen artistic influences, all of which can show great diversity. Compare a Borg 'Cube' to a TIE Fighter to the lunar lander (which really did look like a bunch of spare parts bolted together).

    As a final note for you, garry, the post about 'ghost training' is about players that let accounts lapse, not logging out of the game for the day. Yes, it is upsetting a LOT of players. A lot of players manage multiple accounts because we could juggle training in this way. Unfortunately, I can't afford to keep a second account open all the time, so that's just one fewer accounts for CCP to ever have to worry about again. Is there a reason for CCP changing this? I'm sure their is, but as per the history of CCP, they aren't telling or even hinting as to what it is. (I'm sure if there is anything going to be added because of this, it will come with or before the next expansion in December.) And yes, there are more treasures out there. You have to find them, though. They aren't just floating around the systems where anyone can pick them up.  (Maybe you should open that newbie corp or help chat back up again and just read.)

     

  • Posted: 10/22/08 3:00 AM
    General Discussion
• • EVE Online: What`s Coming in EVE

  • I was discussing this with a corpmate of mine yesterday, and I came across a thought. They could use the 'ambulation' engine and content later on to actually add something to the game compared to the 'walk around the station' ability it's going to be at release. (What that is, I've not a clue... maybe we could land on moons or planets and run around, or tour a titan?)

    I didn't say much about the other content mainly because nearly everyone that has anything to do with science and industry in EVE is going "It's about time!" Now if there was only some way to automate mining that DOESN'T violate the EULA/TOS.... (Sure would be nice to drop a 'mining array' in a belt and come back a few hours later to collect the goods... In low/null sec only, of course! Sovereignty possibly required.)

  • Posted: 10/09/08 7:49 PM
    General Discussion
• • EVE Online: What`s Coming in EVE

  •  

    Originally posted by girlgeek
    

    Originally posted by DCommunist
    

    Your article is incorrectly portraying the controversy behind Ambulation. People are whining because CCP already has a very slow development schedule. And now they have one extra feature to support that has already consumed massive resources. A feature that has no effect on the outside universe, and likely won't without years of updates.

    It irks players because its making the game broader in appeal at the expense of depth. The people who came here for the spaceships and don't care about avatars aren't getting much from it. The people who are attracted to EVE specifically because of the avatars will find out the game has nothing to do with them about 24 hours in.

    And then there's the admission of EVE's Ambulation project being, more or less, a tech testbed for World of Darkness. We get to deal with the First Attempt blunders and bugs just so they can have the experience to make another type of game. So whether its in resources, headache, or dilution of the core game, we're paying for this. You can say "it wont hurt the game", but not everyone is going to believe you.

     

    Whaaa? 

    First of all, please explain how ambulation is going to take ANYthing away from what EVE already IS?  Secondly, who on EARTH would ever play EVE because of the avatars?  That's just a pretty strange thing to even think, when there are other games that have full on 3D characters operating in them 24/7 right NOW, and they're not confined to tiny areas of their game worlds either.  Yeah, I'm sure EVE will draw a VAST number of undesirable people by having simple "ambulation" in space stations.  O.o  That is just illogical to think that.

    Perhaps you don't really understand the "ambulation" thing.  All they're really doing...is allowing you to actually SEE your corporation members and "meet up" for a virtual beer or to meet with mercs or plan wars, or whatever.  It's not like they're building WoW with spaceships.  Please.  ROFLMAO.

    I think ambulation is targetted at the people who already love EVE and maybe want to see a little bit more of making it humanly relatable.  I hate to bring this up, because it usually generates irritation from the "macho men" that play EVE (I'm not lumping all male EVE players in to this), but most WOMEN.....get sick of being a spaceship. 

    
     

    Personally, I've seen the arguement as 'that which doesn't help us only hurts us' despite the fact that CCP has only said that it is a way for them to test out some of the technology needed for the WoD MMO. After all, can't the guys and gals working on Ambulation just work on some other aspect of EVE instead? (Not my arguement, just the way I picture it, FYI.) In my opinion, I think this is a very good way to get some things done, both for testing out some new client software (Ambulation and hopefully an updated UI) as well as for getting a new programming team working. Nothing is better for a massive beta test than using the technology live somewhere.

    I don't know about anyone else, but I've been 'meeting up' with my corpmates for quite a long time now. I don't need a virtual body to do it. I'm logged into the game. I see other players on. I go run some missions, do a little mining, blow up some rats, try to blow up some pirates... , tell a few jokes, drink a few quafes.... Don't get me wrong here, but you're aren't 'being' a spaceship. You're seeing the ship because do you really need to see anything else? It's like running a racing simulator and complaining that you can't walk over to a concession stand for a virtual drink. Sure, you'd look all cute and pretty doing it, but is it really part of the game? If EVE has any problems with connecting players with other players, it's the community itself and not the lack of an avatar with a body. I think it will be fun to 'get out of the pod', but it's not going to be anything that would convince to play or not play a game. (I'm playing a game to 'play a game' not just hang out and socialize.)

    You mean there are WOMEN playing EVE!?!? OMGWTF!! We can't have women ruining our Men Only club!! NOOOO!!

    
     

  • Posted: 10/08/08 3:42 PM
    General Discussion
• • EVE Online: A Look at Factional Warfare

  • Originally posted by Ozmodan
    

    Nice article, except that you missed two of the larger problems with FW.

    1. Pirates and alliances have been wardecing the FW corporations like mad forcing many of the FW players to join npc corporations.  It is a serious issue that has yet to be addressed by CCP.

    2. Currently many veterans are using nano ships to make them invulnerable to FW fleets.  CCP is addressing this problem with changes to the way nano ships operate, but there is not  a date yet when they will implement any changes.  Yes you can counter nano ships if you have enough skill points to fly some advanced ships, but most of the FW players do not have such.

    Hopefully CCP will resolve such issues and make improvements in the rewards category.

    On the plus side, many new players are getting a good introduction into pvp, making this a very positive addition to the game. 

    
     

    Well, #1 was bound to happen. From what I've heard, a few of the 'pirate' corps even joined FW to get their lulz. I don't think it's much of an issue, though. You go in looking for some pvp action, and outsiders will always show up.

    As far as #2.... Well, we're waiting on CCP to 'get it right.' The most recent update shows how many bugs creep in even when they're just trying to fix previous bugs. After just a week of public testing, they found the numbers on the changes were way off on what they wanted to do. Hopefully we'll see the new ship adjustments on Singularity in the next 30 days or so. Veteran pilots who have trained properly should have advantages over newer pilots, but a new pilot can skill up for an interceptor in a short amount of time to counter some of that.

  • Posted: 9/16/08 12:17 PM
    General Discussion
• • What games have a real economy?

  • Originally posted by HensenLiros
    

    Originally posted by Midnitte
    

    I'd say the most "real" economy in a game would be WoW; where else do you see prices of the same products differentiate from place to place (server to server) and massive amounts of inflation and money sink holes.

     

    Ultima Online and its less than 70.000 non-japanese subscribers has all that. Prices of items on different servers are different, so people often buy transfer tokens to go to another server and sell items for a higher price. It also has inflation/ sink holes and the value of gold is always changing.

    That doesn't make UO's economy any close to a real economy. WoW's isn't any close to a real economy either, unless your comcept of real economy is really basic and poor.

    
     

    The money sinks are exactly the kinds of things that prevent most MMOs from being a true economy. A true economy in a game will have proper item decay/destruction just like in life. From your statements here, UO has an economic system just like WoW/EQ/whatever other fantasy MMORPG you want to list. I'm not saying that these MMOs don't have an economy. They do. The economy is very artificial and is highly succeptible to manipulation (be that a group of players, devs, hackers, etc).

    Basicly, what is being asked (aka my understanding of the question) is: Which games have a real economic system compared to games that just use game mechanics to simulate an economy?

    (PS What does the nationality of subscribers have anything to do with the game's economy?)

  • Posted: 8/30/08 12:27 AM
    General Discussion