Profile: Sovrath
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• • The biggest issue in mmos, classes

  • Originally posted by Abrahmm
    

    Originally posted by Gameloading
    

    It really surprises me that the people who say "Why won't somebody make a skill based MMORPG?" when the answer to that is quite obvious.

    I mean, did you never wonder WHY MMORPG's became so popular AFTER the skill system was thrown away?

    The reason why so many mmorpg development companies are using a class system over a skill system is because it's more accessible. Having so many skills to advance makes the game unnecessary complicated for both the player and the developer. Balancing a skill system is a lot harder than balancing classes because you have to take a nearly unlimited amount of possibilities into consideration, and players are going to be confused what stat to raise, how to raise them and how to build an effective character. Too many choices is like having no choice, which is why the system was abandoned, and just look at which MMORPG's are the most popular: It's not the skill based ones, thats for sure.

     

    Alas, these are the very reasons why so many of us are at this site, waiting for something. People don't want to have to think anymore. They don't want to learn something new. They don't want to research how to be the best. The masses want instant gratification, spoonfed, optionless game play. What accompanies this style of game play is sheer boredom. While these companies chase the masses of "normal" people that don't want to have to work or spend time for anything, the true gamers are sitting around, looking at what we have to play, and are very very bored. There are only a few games that are outside of the box currently, and Eve being the best example of a very successful outside the box game.

    Skill systems aren't complicated. They take a little thought and research, testing and building to understand. Do the masses want to do these things to play a game? No. But a lot of true gamers do. Frankly, I won't be upset if a game is made for the gamers.

    
     

    I think that's pretty arrogant. Essentially, whoever doesn't agree with what you consider to be superior is stupid.

    Quite frankly you all are masses in some way or another. What movies are you watching? Mussic? Do any of you even read? Art?

    I bet if we were to peer into your life we might see some sort of entertainment of the masses. Heck, even video games are still low brow entertainment.

    People want to be able to connect with something. Sometimes that has nothing to do with complexity and has everything to do with simplicity. If you were to look into my life you would find stuff that would make your head spin. You would also find stuff that you could easily ridicule me for hours of ridiculing fun. And probably rightly so.

    There are whole philosophies of thought that revolve around that concept.

    Just becuase there is complexity in a game doesn't mean it's successful.

     

  • Posted: 7/23/08 7:38 PM
    General Discussion
• • Lineage 3

  • Originally posted by FastTx
    

    Lineage 2 is getting easier because thats how games progress. Think of WoW and Burning Crusade. They made their 1-60 easier, why? They wanted it to be easier for players to get to endgame.

    Lineage 2 is empty of mid-content. Its got content for 1-40, but theres not much incentive from 40-65. There is little to no money making there, little to no parties. If you aren't in a clan you enjoy by level 40 you probably won't keep playing.

    Having said that, an example would be C1 where sure the level cap was 75 but skills only went up to level 58. It took at most 6-7 months to get to that level. Now the level cap is level 85 and since your subclasses give your main class bonuses now, you only max out when you become 85/80/80/80. The grind is becoming harder, but it's looking less and less grindy because they hide it well. Even though compared to C1, 1-58 takes perhaps a week.

    
     

    Well that's a good point regarding the fact that games get easier to allow for new players to rise to respectable levels.

    I just wonder if, because players are expecting more casual friendly games, if L3 will not follow in those footsteps. I'm on the fence really as I like the more hardcore nature of L2 but I don't want to spend all my time playing video games. If only I could retire "now"...

  • Posted: 7/23/08 3:58 PM
    Lineage II
• • Lineage 3

  • Originally posted by FastTx
    

    Lineage 2 has always been the hardcore franchise of NCSoft. I believe Aion will be their casual MMO (If it's a success).

    Guild Wars Line = No Grind

    Aion franchise = Casual Grind

    Lineage franchise = Hardcore grind

    Tabula Rasa = Sci Fi

    However if they don't make Lineage 3 less bot friendly it's not going to survive. At least NCSoft has competition for all types of gamers. Even Dungeon Runners has it's own niche. I'll stick with my belief that Lineage 3 will be a hard grind where no one will reach the leveling cap for a year.

    
     

    Yes but remember, the grind in L2 has not only softened it will get even, er.. "softer" in the next update (currently on the PTS).

    Believe me, I want a game where not everyone is high lvl. However I don't think L3 will continue that trend. Having said that, I am waiting for Aion and it is the only game that I am waiting for.

  • Posted: 7/23/08 3:46 PM
    Lineage II
• • How many are leaving for WAR?

  • Originally posted by netranger28
    

    The lack of any good pvp is what is slowing this game down. I'm tempted to leave for WAR since it will be PVE and have some wicked PVP. The reason games like wow are so popular and good in the long run is because they mix both things very well.

     

    In my opinion a great pvp with pve mix is the only way a game can compete in the big leagues. This means compete on the scale of WoW.

     

    Is pvp issential for wide and mass appeal in the current MMO market. Mass appeal = more $$$$

    
     

    They are completely different types of games. You are basically assuming that everyone wants the same type of game and that they are constantly jockeying to find that game.

    I pay for LOTRO and I pay for Lineage 2. I can play both because I required different things from both. Like the AoC thread that asked the same question, "no" I doubt that Warhammer will draw many players completely away from LOTRO as it is unique to itself.

  • Posted: 7/23/08 12:35 PM
    Lord of the Rings Online
• • Lineage 3

  • Originally posted by Torak
    

    Originally posted by Sovrath
    

    Originally posted by Torak
    

     Why would an L2 player want to move to games like Vanguard (and I did for a while) or EQ2 or LotR's? None of these games offer anything like the intenses experiences you have in L2.

    
     

    To be honest I play LOTRO and a VERY small bit of WoW precisely because they don't offer the intense gameplay that L2 has.

    L2 is a more engaging game but I can't really enjoy it fully because a player has to always be "on" all the time.

    It is my thought that players will require different types of games depending on the mood they are in. Sometimes just logging on and having some laid back fun is more enjoyable than constantly watching your back.

    Don't get me wrong, I enjoy some of those games also. I just stopped playing Vanguard for the last six months on a PvE server.

    To be honest, although I am leery of someone running by in L2 sometimes, I'm generally not "on" all the time there either. Sometimes during those looong grinds I wish someone would run by and take a whack at me.

    
     

    lol, well let's just say that there are people who I need to get first before they get me.

  • Posted: 7/23/08 12:11 PM
    Lineage II