Profile: techlord
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• • Lets talk about MMO development...

  • Originally posted by Plasuma!!!
    

    At least you'll admit I was a developer, and no, I'm not a naysayer; I'm telling you that you're going about the wrong approach.

    Have you ever considered that what I am giving you is advice? I think wanting to develop a game is a good goal to have, but it's better to be prepared going into the industry rather than expecting dreams to unfold magically because you've written a few documents outlining them.

    If you can't even consider advice from another person, then you are not fit to be a game developer. Bottom line.

    A rebel you may be, but fighting against logic will get you nowhere.

    
     

    Truly sorry to offend you, I reckon you didnt notice the pun in my last post (hint: grunt labor -->  dis`grunt`led). Thanks for the Advice.

    Also, if you have any advice on how to implement Asynchronous Time-Shifting Effects {Bullet-time, Fast-Forward , Replay, and Reverse} across a Network between Players thats utilizing both Server/Client side prediction techniques. Any ideas on this are welcomed.

  • Posted: 10/04/08 8:58 AM
    Developers Corner
• • Lets talk about MMO development...

  • Originally posted by Plasuma!!!
    

    Originally posted by techlord
     

    We have very different perceptions on what a Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game is and how to develop one.... and thats OK. IMHO, this forum is more of MMORPG by your definition than most of 3D games versions out there.

    My definition of a Feature Set is, well, is a set of features that define how the game plays and works for the Players. The Engine is designed to support these features. I have a number of features I desire in my game that  I dont see offered by other pre-developed MMO Server/Client Engines in my price range, thus, I'm developing my own. I'm using several 3rd Party Code Libraries, Middleware, and Tools to aid me in building the Server/Client Engine to support the Game feature set. These tools significantly reduce the amount of coding I have to do single handedly.

    All though I'm coding the Engine solo, I dont consider myself alone. I consult with others (developers, artist, players) on many online forums just like this one. This is my development community. IMHO, the only way a Design Doc becomes pointless is if you dont use it. I don't know about your DD, but, my isnt a tablet of stone.  It evolves and grows during the development process.

    Of course, I realize the odds are against me (according to naysayers). I'm going against the odds, that what Rebels do. I'm not worried about wether my game sells or not, I'm worried about completing a goal I set for myself. 

    Back to coding...

     

    I speak from experience when I say it's important that you have a team to work with you. Online forums and occasional chats over a messenger are quite limited, since a lot of the creative process during development is done with diagrams and other visual aids; usually on a white-board or some similar medium, so other members of your team can take turns during blue sky sessions modifying or comparing their own thoughts with what was initially conceived.

    Games are not made from thick multi-thousand page design documents, they are very often just a collection of charts, graphs, schematics, and diagrams. Your game's "Constitution" (a set of rules for game mechanics) will probably be the only picture-less page in your entire design doc.

    So collaborating with others using text-only communication is somewhat counterproductive.

    As for me, I don't pretend to develop games anymore, thus I have no 'DD'. That was high school and some of college before I actually got into the industry with friends and realized that the only positions open to fresh-from-school individuals in the industry are for grunt labor. That's what I get for not starting my own business.

    
     

    LOL Plasuma. The above post reads like a disgruntled developer (aka Naysayer) to me.

  • Posted: 10/02/08 5:03 PM
    Developers Corner
• • Lets talk about MMO development...

  • Originally posted by Plasuma!!!
    

    Originally posted by techlord
    

    Originally posted by techlord
    

    I personally don't believe that a MMORPG is more difficult to develop than a SRPG, in fact, I would dare say its easier. My reasoning is based on the difference in the game play  mechanics and story telling between the two. In a multiplayer scenario, the Players are provided a set of game mechanics and tools to assist their story development together, in a single player game the developer provides all the story development.

    Allow me to re-phrase, I don't believe that a MMORPG is more difficult to develop than a SRPG, dependent on the feature set.

    I wlll see the MMORPG of MY Dreams to completion, regardless of naysayers.

     

    If you could clarify what a 'feature set' is by your definition, that would help. I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

    My definition of an MMORPG is obviously very different from yours, it seems. I think the idea of this genre is to create an alternate reality in which a broad spectrum of players want to be a part of (and interact with each other in) a digital society, not merely a game with infinite re-playability.

     

    Anyways, I will tell you right now that your dream will likely alter your creation into more of a single-player game that only you and a handful of other niche players would enjoy, instead of a successful MMORPG (massive is the key word, a small group of people is not massive). You really can't make a social game with broad appeal as a solo project.

    Having complete control over your creation (your world) would make you it's ruler; you would have absolute power over it. Here's this rather famous quote to put things into perspective, "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always (perceived as) bad men."
    - John Emerich Edward Dalberg Acton

    This applies to social game development as it applies to government in reality. You must split the control of the game's design among many people in order to maintain a balance of opinion that a majority can agree with and be satisfied. If you don't keep a balance of opinion and you continually favor one side or the other, you will lose players.

    Game developers who aim to work towards the concept of social gaming must take a step away from the usual story-telling involved in other genres and become law-makers. As a law-maker, you need to think about every other person and the impact your decisions will make on the entire community as a whole, not just yourself. This process is, of course, biased by opinion, which means that you will need other people of varying perspectives to help bring the game into balance.

    This again enforces my point: you can't do it alone.

    Also, design documents are completely pointless when you have only yourself to argue with for constructive criticism. Designing a game is a process more akin to evolution than creation, as the original concept will be improved over time as you interact with other members of your team and get new ideas from them. There are higher chances for a game developed collaboratively to be successful than one developed as a solo project.

    I think that if you want better odds for success, you should find some capable individuals and work together.

    Alas, in the end, it's all a difference of opinion. You may call your game concept an MMORPG as it is, but I will disagree as it conflicts with my own interpretation of the genre.

    
     

    We have very different perceptions on what a Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game is and how to develop one.... and thats OK. IMHO, this forum is more of MMORPG by your definition than most of 3D games versions out there.

    My definition of a Feature Set is, well, is a set of features that define how the game plays and works for the Players. The Engine is designed to support these features. I have a number of features I desire in my game that  I dont see offered by other pre-developed MMO Server/Client Engines in my price range, thus, I'm developing my own. I'm using several 3rd Party Code Libraries, Middleware, and Tools to aid me in building the Server/Client Engine to support the Game feature set. These tools significantly reduce the amount of coding I have to do single handedly.

    All though I'm coding the Engine solo, I dont consider myself alone. I consult with others (developers, artist, players) on many online forums just like this one. This is my development community. IMHO, the only way a Design Doc becomes pointless is if you dont use it. I don't know about your DD, but, my isnt a tablet of stone.  It evolves and grows during the development process.

    Of course, I realize the odds are against me (according to naysayers). I'm going against the odds, that what Rebels do. I'm not worried about wether my game sells or not, I'm worried about completing a goal I set for myself. 

    Back to coding...

  • Posted: 10/02/08 9:01 AM
    Developers Corner
• • Lets talk about MMO development...

  • Originally posted by techlord
    

    I personally don't believe that a MMORPG is more difficult to develop than a SRPG, in fact, I would dare say its easier. My reasoning is based on the difference in the game play  mechanics and story telling between the two. In a multiplayer scenario, the Players are provided a set of game mechanics and tools to assist their story development together, in a single player game the developer provides all the story development.

    Allow me to re-phrase, I don't believe that a MMORPG is more difficult to develop than a SRPG, dependent on the feature set.  I also don't believe that developing a MMORPG is easy peasy lemon-squeezy (considering I'm currenly developing one), but, this too is also dependent on the feature set. 

    Ultimately, my point is that developing a MMORPG single-handedly, with a extremely low  budget is not impossible. Of course, this is all dependent on feature set. I feel extremely confident that a decade of games/web programming and a detailed design document (3D)  I wlll see the MMORPG of MY Dreams to completion, regardless of naysayers.

  • Posted: 9/26/08 9:31 AM
    Developers Corner
• • Lets talk about MMO development...

  • I personally don't believe that a MMORPG is more difficult to develop than a SRPG, in fact, I would dare say its easier. My reasoning is based on the difference in the game play  mechanics and story telling between the two. In a multiplayer scenario, the Players are provided a set of game mechanics and tools to assist their story development together, in a single player game the developer provides all the story development.

    Not only am I independent, but, I'm completely solo, developing a MMO single handedly. I completely ignore naysayers and anyone else who doesnt have experience developing such software. Even such individuals had the experience, I would still proceed down this road. I'm a rebel.

  • Posted: 9/23/08 7:56 AM
    Developers Corner